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Burnley v Palace match thread

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OAPeagle Flag 06 Nov 23 10.03am Send a Private Message to OAPeagle Add OAPeagle as a friend

Well done lads. Tough to watch but at least kept our shape (I have many old memories of back 4 collapsing vs likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U (yes, really, they had a decent team 25yrs ago), etc. Still too many stray passes though - better practice that than building super fit athletes (with one or two notable exceptions!). Like Sheffield Utd, Luton and Bournemouth, Burnley have a one dimensional style of play which could well be their downfall. But for entertainment value, look to the bottom four, for capable but boring the next 6. By the way, is it just me or does anyone else keep looking at the various permutations necessary for how quickly we can overtake the seaweed? And now we don't play anyone above us for a whole month so, with a few key players back, a good chance to move higher. Over to you Roy.

 

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 06 Nov 23 10.27am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by OAPeagle

Well done lads. Tough to watch but at least kept our shape (I have many old memories of back 4 collapsing vs likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U (yes, really, they had a decent team 25yrs ago), etc. Still too many stray passes though - better practice that than building super fit athletes (with one or two notable exceptions!). Like Sheffield Utd, Luton and Bournemouth, Burnley have a one dimensional style of play which could well be their downfall. But for entertainment value, look to the bottom four, for capable but boring the next 6. By the way, is it just me or does anyone else keep looking at the various permutations necessary for how quickly we can overtake the seaweed? And now we don't play anyone above us for a whole month so, with a few key players back, a good chance to move higher. Over to you Roy.

Good post OAPeagle agree, however whilst you may be looking at the weed I am relishing the fact that whilst we have some more desirable fixtures upcoming, Chelsea, who are three points behind us, have; Spurs, City, Newcastle, Brighton, United and away to Everton. If we put some distance between ourselves and them, I shall be Willo's proverbial Cheshire Cat at Xmas!

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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MabbsWasKing Flag 06 Nov 23 10.46am Send a Private Message to MabbsWasKing Add MabbsWasKing as a friend

For me it is just about how narrow we defend which whilst serving us well means that other teams target one or other of our full backs. Both Ward and Mitchell have been targeted with an overload down one side in various games and struggled. In this situation they have an awful lot of space to cover often against two pacey players particularly if the bods in front of them are being lazy or switch off.
Most of the goals resulting from this haven’t been down to pure pace they have been down to Clyne, Mitchell or Ward not concentrating momentarily.
Ward has been brilliant for us but is losing pace and will probably see out the last few years of his career as a quality Championship full back or first team cover for us. I cant think that we weren’t trying to get a full back in the summer; it just didn’t happen. It certainly will this January or next summer.
Didn’t we play Richard’s as full back in a couple of games and he looked awful? Clearly Roy doesn’t think he makes a good full back and I would guess he doesn’t want to play there. Richard’s is a cracking centre back and we are lucky he is keeping patient.
For me Ward is better positionally and at concentrating than Clyne and given the players at our disposal fully deserves his first choice status. He is also had an extremely big part in our getting to the Premiership in the first place.

 

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Putitout Flag Oxford 06 Nov 23 10.50am Send a Private Message to Putitout Add Putitout as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I would venture that Palace fans want to see their team win. If that means having less possession than the opposition but being more effective with it, I for one am happy with that.

Palace entertain me ,just because they are Palace. Not always pretty, not always satisfying in the sense of comparison to the style of the mega clubs of Europe .
That’s not to say they never disappoint, but the biggest disappointment is when they lose. There is no way I would get more entertainment watching them beaten week after week because entertaining me was their prime mover. Winning and maintaining our status has to be the first and foremost requirement. If I only wanted entertainment fit for a purest, I would only have few , choices , and with all due respect to the dear old club I love they have yet to be one of those.

 

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 06 Nov 23 10.55am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Putitout

Palace entertain me ,just because they are Palace. Not always pretty, not always satisfying in the sense of comparison to the style of the mega clubs of Europe .
That’s not to say they never disappoint, but the biggest disappointment is when they lose. There is no way I would get more entertainment watching them beaten week after week because entertaining me was their prime mover. Winning and maintaining our status has to be the first and foremost requirement. If I only wanted entertainment fit for a purest, I would only have few , choices , and with all due respect to the dear old club I love they have yet to be one of those.

Precisely.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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OAPeagle Flag 06 Nov 23 11.10am Send a Private Message to OAPeagle Add OAPeagle as a friend

Yep Cheshire Cat, top 6 finish and it'll be pAlice in Wonderland.

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Good post OAPeagle agree, however whilst you may be looking at the weed I am relishing the fact that whilst we have some more desirable fixtures upcoming, Chelsea, who are three points behind us, have; Spurs, City, Newcastle, Brighton, United and away to Everton. If we put some distance between ourselves and them, I shall be Willo's proverbial Cheshire Cat at Xmas!

 

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ambrose7 Flag Croydon 06 Nov 23 2.41pm Send a Private Message to ambrose7 Add ambrose7 as a friend

Originally posted by adelaar

We aren't comparing ourselves to Sheffield Utd, Luton and Burnley. I want to look up the table and be a top 10 team.
I just simply don't believe any fan on here could enjoy today. FYI I was at the game, and we only didn't concede because Burnley aren't good enough. When we play the top teams, we get found out. Today they dominated us, Roy said so himself. He knows we have a limited squad and has to play limited football.
Today Burnley basically had all the ball and we say back and said go on then. That's not how we should be playing against a bottom 3 side.
Talk of Vieira (and De Boer) shows we've had our hands burnt previously with the 'progressive young manager' I mentioned earlier. Well how come Brighton found one no one even knew of?
Comes down to poor scouting, and a chairman who loves us but doesn't have the money to take us to the next level. Worse is, we have two other investors who are minted but aren't interested.
Despite all this, for now we are top 10. We are doing fine and wont get relegated this season. So i feel we need to take this opportunity to look ahead and plan for next season. Roy won't be here, so we need to change tack. Let's go for that attack minded manager, select the right person, and crucially, back him.
Nome of this is against Roy who has done fantastically since rejoining. I just don't feel like we can continue like this after this season.


We can look up the table, but we don't have a top 10 budget - not even close to it. The Brighton card gets pulled a lot but they're a freak example helped by: 1) a club structure that Potter benefitted from before De Zerbi; and 2) identifying a handful of players Chelsea were willing to pay miles over the odds for. They're only 3 points above us.

Currently we're the best team in the league on position vs transfer expenditure: [Link]

It'd be great if we could dominate the bottom 3 every time we face them but it just isn't going to happen, especially when the injury list is as it is in the attacking areas. You say yourself that we have a limited squad - a new manager doesn't change that.

Just this weekend, Liverpool, Villa, United, Wolves all had simple-ish away games and were far from convincing so you take the win and the gameplan that got us it.

Realistically, the plan seems to be that we'll:

1) sell at least one of the stars in the next 12 months for big money (Guehi perhaps the most likely) and hopefully reinvesting
2) eye up Paddy as a potential successor

 


26th January 2010 - Enter Administration
2nd May 2010 - D-Day 1 - Survival at Hillsborough
1st June 2010 - D-Day 2 - Survival at Lloyds
7th June 2010 - CPFC2010 exchange contracts.

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palace99 Flag New Mills 06 Nov 23 2.45pm

Originally posted by Putitout

Palace entertain me ,just because they are Palace. Not always pretty, not always satisfying in the sense of comparison to the style of the mega clubs of Europe .
That’s not to say they never disappoint, but the biggest disappointment is when they lose. There is no way I would get more entertainment watching them beaten week after week because entertaining me was their prime mover. Winning and maintaining our status has to be the first and foremost requirement. If I only wanted entertainment fit for a purest, I would only have few , choices , and with all due respect to the dear old club I love they have yet to be one of those.

Not sure i 100% agree. After over 10 years in the Prem should we not be aiming for a little more.

Games are often decided on fine margins. If Forest had scored when the lob came off the post it would have been a very different game. Similarly, if the shot from the cut back on Saturday was on target rather than rolling across the face of our goal, the last 20 minutes would have been very different.

The point is if you set up just to defend then this strategy will fail if there is an early goal - as per Newcastle a few weeks ago.
Under say Pulis in year 1 it was 100% correct to get the most out of limited resources, today i am less sure.

For those who say we don't have the money etc and players are injured, there are limits to this argument. Over the summer we spent c£40m on a goalkeeper and a 19 year old Brazilian. Both may be excellent long term purchases but neither will feature much this season.
Additionally, for our size we have one of the highest wage bills. This is clearly limiting our transfer spend. Reserve players such as Tomkins and Jairo are on over £50k yet rarely kick a ball. This is obscene. We now have a reserve goalie on £100k and already other agents are asking for pay rises for their players.

In terms of injuries Olise was injured in the summer so we knew we didn't have him for a min of 3 months and we've known Zaha was leaving for over 2 years.
We haven't used either of our loans, which would have been a cost effective short term option.

When you compare us with say Brentford, who clearly don't have our resources, they are above us despite managing without their best player, Toney. They've also lost their goalie on the eve of the season, yet didn't panic.

It just appears we don't really have a strategy and so a big injury or the odd transfer out shows how limited our squad is. Jan is African cup too so we could lose 3 players for 6 or so weeks.



 

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Nov 23 3.07pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by palace99

Not sure i 100% agree. After over 10 years in the Prem should we not be aiming for a little more.

Games are often decided on fine margins. If Forest had scored when the lob came off the post it would have been a very different game. Similarly, if the shot from the cut back on Saturday was on target rather than rolling across the face of our goal, the last 20 minutes would have been very different.

The point is if you set up just to defend then this strategy will fail if there is an early goal - as per Newcastle a few weeks ago.
Under say Pulis in year 1 it was 100% correct to get the most out of limited resources, today i am less sure.

For those who say we don't have the money etc and players are injured, there are limits to this argument. Over the summer we spent c£40m on a goalkeeper and a 19 year old Brazilian. Both may be excellent long term purchases but neither will feature much this season.
Additionally, for our size we have one of the highest wage bills. This is clearly limiting our transfer spend. Reserve players such as Tomkins and Jairo are on over £50k yet rarely kick a ball. This is obscene. We now have a reserve goalie on £100k and already other agents are asking for pay rises for their players.

In terms of injuries Olise was injured in the summer so we knew we didn't have him for a min of 3 months and we've known Zaha was leaving for over 2 years.
We haven't used either of our loans, which would have been a cost effective short term option.

When you compare us with say Brentford, who clearly don't have our resources, they are above us despite managing without their best player, Toney. They've also lost their goalie on the eve of the season, yet didn't panic.

It just appears we don't really have a strategy and so a big injury or the odd transfer out shows how limited our squad is. Jan is African cup too so we could lose 3 players for 6 or so weeks.

My understanding is that the fee for Henderson was £15 Mill rising to £20 Mill and for Franca it was around £17 Mill rising to around £26 Mill.

 

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CT Charlie Flag 06 Nov 23 4.26pm Send a Private Message to CT Charlie Add CT Charlie as a friend

The good thing about starting Ward is that we can predict the tactics of our opponents: they'll attack our right side. If we can provide him with defensive help from midfielders and Ayew, we can usually keep the opponents at bay for about 60 minutes. Then, given his tired legs, it's time to bring in a substitute. What we'll lose in positional play and experience, we'll make up in pace.

 

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Putitout Flag Oxford 06 Nov 23 5.19pm Send a Private Message to Putitout Add Putitout as a friend

Originally posted by palace99

Not sure i 100% agree. After over 10 years in the Prem should we not be aiming for a little more.

Games are often decided on fine margins. If Forest had scored when the lob came off the post it would have been a very different game. Similarly, if the shot from the cut back on Saturday was on target rather than rolling across the face of our goal, the last 20 minutes would have been very different.

The point is if you set up just to defend then this strategy will fail if there is an early goal - as per Newcastle a few weeks ago.
Under say Pulis in year 1 it was 100% correct to get the most out of limited resources, today i am less sure.

For those who say we don't have the money etc and players are injured, there are limits to this argument. Over the summer we spent c£40m on a goalkeeper and a 19 year old Brazilian. Both may be excellent long term purchases but neither will feature much this season.
Additionally, for our size we have one of the highest wage bills. This is clearly limiting our transfer spend. Reserve players such as Tomkins and Jairo are on over £50k yet rarely kick a ball. This is obscene. We now have a reserve goalie on £100k and already other agents are asking for pay rises for their players.

In terms of injuries Olise was injured in the summer so we knew we didn't have him for a min of 3 months and we've known Zaha was leaving for over 2 years.
We haven't used either of our loans, which would have been a cost effective short term option.

When you compare us with say Brentford, who clearly don't have our resources, they are above us despite managing without their best player, Toney. They've also lost their goalie on the eve of the season, yet didn't panic.

It just appears we don't really have a strategy and so a big injury or the odd transfer out shows how limited our squad is. Jan is African cup too so we could lose 3 players for 6 or so weeks.




By highlighting. that line you take it out of context. For your own moan. The post is to do with enjoying football as played by Palace, regardless, of style , because it’s the club we have lived with and had our ups and downs with. football is not all about style anyway, it’s about winning often enough to maintain a level.
This is the finest , longest period this club has had in the highest league we have. It took us years of steady upward movement , with three or four severe set backs on the way. We were seeking re-election in the early fifties, and a forth division side in the early sixties, yet here we are. It’s taken a long time.
Any forward movement now will not happen over night unless we play winning football no matter what. If playing progressive football has a bigger risk of going backwards because , as is the case for so many in the Championship after trying it , it turns out you didn’t do it well enough.
Brentford , are a team can’t beat us so far I recall, in fact last season two absolute last minute goals gave them draws.
I agree with you recruitment in the last two years has not supported the better chances of achieving a top ten finish, and yes they do fly by the seat of their pants , with squad numbers, but the longer we don’t panic and try to make it happen ,by trying to be more stylish in our play when the squad doesn’t have the all round quality to do it, then the more chance we have got a proper platform when we finally make it happen. The price of getting it wrong is not worth the risk. of thinking we need to make entertainment top of our priorities. Ask Leicester, Southampton,, Leeds, all tried to be stylish entertainers , all where they are by not just grinding out some results when the style wasn’t actually good game practise anymore.

 

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doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 06 Nov 23 6.30pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Well said Putitout.

I came to London and started watching Palace in the Allison years. We've certainly had our ups and downs since then and seen some pretty dire football (far worse than anything we've seen under Roy).

I'm first and foremost a Palace fan irrespective of the style of football we play. Of course, I'd like to see us play more attacking and attractive football but my "likes" come second to wanting to see Palace win and stay in this top league as long as we can.

We did a job on Burnley and earned our 3 points

Edited by doombear (06 Nov 2023 6.30pm)

 

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