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Chelsea vs Crystal Palace - Match Thread

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 16 Jan 23 9.48am
Originally posted by Slimey Toad The elephant in the room is that Vieria is out of his depth. One of the main skills of management is to take a bunch of average to quite good players and mould them into an effective fighting machine. Pulis and Allardyce can do this As someone has pointed out Pulis got a Championship team to 11th place. I’m not going to argue the point about Vieira being out of his depth, but it’s amusing to see an increasing number of posts getting misty eyed about the likes of Pulis, Allardyce, and Roy. A year ago, Vieira was being given plaudits for steering the club in a different playing direction while achieving similar results to Hodgson. I think it’s better to focus on what is different this season. And my view is that Vieira has been left with an unbalanced squad largely populated with young players not ready for regular first team football, senior players that are past their best, and a lack of genuine competition for places. So the job today would probably suit one of the previously mentioned names. Parish wanted and got, a playing ‘ re set ‘. That was what Vieira delivered. Unfortunately the club is not able to provide the finance to sustain and build upon the work done last year. It’s a results business so if, as most expect, we lose our next 3/4 games, then Vieira will be vulnerable. And that would probably end in another ‘ re set ‘ as Parish brings in another pragmatist as manager. That would be a shame as we were on the cusp of entering a new era . Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 16 Jan 23 9.48am

Originally posted by Slimey Toad

The elephant in the room is that Vieria is out of his depth. One of the main skills of management is to take a bunch of average to quite good players and mould them into an effective fighting machine. Pulis and Allardyce can do this As someone has pointed out Pulis got a Championship team to 11th place.

I’m not going to argue the point about Vieira being out of his depth, but it’s amusing to see an increasing number of posts getting misty eyed about the likes of Pulis, Allardyce, and Roy.

A year ago, Vieira was being given plaudits for steering the club in a different playing direction while achieving similar results to Hodgson. I think it’s better to focus on what is different this season. And my view is that Vieira has been left with an unbalanced squad largely populated with young players not ready for regular first team football, senior players that are past their best, and a lack of genuine competition for places.

So the job today would probably suit one of the previously mentioned names. Parish wanted and got, a playing ‘ re set ‘. That was what Vieira delivered. Unfortunately the club is not able to provide the finance to sustain and build upon the work done last year.

It’s a results business so if, as most expect, we lose our next 3/4 games, then Vieira will be vulnerable. And that would probably end in another ‘ re set ‘ as Parish brings in another pragmatist as manager. That would be a shame as we were on the cusp of entering a new era .

Old, Ungifted and White

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southnorwoodhill 16 Jan 23 9.56am
Originally posted by Slimey Toad The elephant in the room is that Vieria is out of his depth. One of the main skills of management is to take a bunch of average to quite good players and mould them into an effective fighting machine. Pulis and Allardyce can do this As someone has pointed out Pulis got a Championship team to 11th place. It could be. Or it could be that this is the type of football Parish wants us to play, without supplying the manager with the type of player to play it; we all remember FdB's total football. Ironically last season it took a Chelsea loanee to show what we were missing, along with McArthur and Kouyate - the most important and busiest area on the pitch needs competitive players, it really is as simple as that Steve Parish. There's no need to wonder why it has gone so very wrong this season, it's there right before you. One player carrying two others who are not suited to the role, go figure.
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southnorwoodhill

16 Jan 23 9.56am

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Originally posted by Slimey Toad

It could be. Or it could be that this is the type of football Parish wants us to play, without supplying the manager with the type of player to play it; we all remember FdB's total football.
Ironically last season it took a Chelsea loanee to show what we were missing, along with McArthur and Kouyate - the most important and busiest area on the pitch needs competitive players, it really is as simple as that Steve Parish. There's no need to wonder why it has gone so very wrong this season, it's there right before you. One player carrying two others who are not suited to the role, go figure.

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 16 Jan 23 10.06am
Originally posted by Nicholas91 My thoughts on things was that these investors usually see a club like ours as just a business through which to generate some extra dosh and/or a 'hobby'. It's not even a lone venture as they have other clubs too. That would roughly translate as keeping us afloat in PL however any intentions to really build the club/team may not quite align to any grand aspirations of us as fans (fantastic team, new signings, silverware & stadium). Parish originally bought Palace as part of a consortium himself and whilst maintaining his position as the figurehead, and a Palace fan, he's hardly Moneybags Q. Rockefeller. All very sceptical and uninformed assumptions from me however would be interested to be educated on how far off the mark I am? Edited by Nicholas91 (16 Jan 2023 9.46am) As I posted on another thread, having the consortium of owners that we have today is doing us no favours. I’m sure Steve Paish has ambitions for the club but I’m not convinced that the others are willing to put the finances in place. At the moment, this transfer window looks a prime example. If the club was put up for sale I’m sure there would be no shortage of interested parties, the trade off being that potentially there would not be a fan like Parish, in place. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing. I suspect that he will not want to remain for too much longer. If he delivers the new stand, it may well be his swan song Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 16 Jan 23 10.06am

Originally posted by Nicholas91

My thoughts on things was that these investors usually see a club like ours as just a business through which to generate some extra dosh and/or a 'hobby'. It's not even a lone venture as they have other clubs too. That would roughly translate as keeping us afloat in PL however any intentions to really build the club/team may not quite align to any grand aspirations of us as fans (fantastic team, new signings, silverware & stadium).

Parish originally bought Palace as part of a consortium himself and whilst maintaining his position as the figurehead, and a Palace fan, he's hardly Moneybags Q. Rockefeller.

All very sceptical and uninformed assumptions from me however would be interested to be educated on how far off the mark I am?

Edited by Nicholas91 (16 Jan 2023 9.46am)

As I posted on another thread, having the consortium of owners that we have today is doing us no favours.

I’m sure Steve Paish has ambitions for the club but I’m not convinced that the others are willing to put the finances in place. At the moment, this transfer window looks a prime example.

If the club was put up for sale I’m sure there would be no shortage of interested parties, the trade off being that potentially there would not be a fan like Parish, in place. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing. I suspect that he will not want to remain for too much longer. If he delivers the new stand, it may well be his swan song

Old, Ungifted and White

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hythemaceagle Hythe Kent 16 Jan 23 10.19am
And of course it doesn’t help that Brighton are doing so well on a limited budget. Their scouting team must be the envy of all. And they’re selling players on for huge profits! Sorry to rub salt in the wounds.
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hythemaceagle

Hythe Kent 16 Jan 23 10.19am

And of course it doesn’t help that Brighton are doing so well on a limited budget. Their scouting team must be the envy of all. And they’re selling players on for huge profits! Sorry to rub salt in the wounds.

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Midlands Eagle 16 Jan 23 10.25am
Originally posted by NEILLO As I posted on another thread, having the consortium of owners that we have today is doing us no favours. I’m sure Steve Paish has ambitions for the club but I’m not convinced that the others are willing to put the finances in place. At the moment, this transfer window looks a prime example. If the club was put up for sale I’m sure there would be no shortage of interested parties, the trade off being that potentially there would not be a fan like Parish, in place. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing. I suspect that he will not want to remain for too much longer. If he delivers the new stand, it may well be his swan song I have speculated on other threads that the elephant in the room could well be Parish's comparative lack of wealth as it is traditional in situations of multiple share owners that they invest in proportion to their shareholdings so if we need £0m of funding then Parish has to stump up £9m which he may well not have. I'm not sure that your comment about Parish not wanting to stay much longer is accurate as I think that he revels in the limelight of being a Premier League club chairman. Don't forget that he claimed to be a reluctant purchaser of the club saying that he would hand over once the club had been stabilised and a prospective buyer had been found. That was 12 years ago and he has shown no signs of wanting to relinquish the reigns yet
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Midlands Eagle

16 Jan 23 10.25am

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Originally posted by NEILLO

As I posted on another thread, having the consortium of owners that we have today is doing us no favours.

I’m sure Steve Paish has ambitions for the club but I’m not convinced that the others are willing to put the finances in place. At the moment, this transfer window looks a prime example.

I have speculated on other threads that the elephant in the room could well be Parish's comparative lack of wealth as it is traditional in situations of multiple share owners that they invest in proportion to their shareholdings so if we need £0m of funding then Parish has to stump up £9m which he may well not have.

I'm not sure that your comment about Parish not wanting to stay much longer is accurate as I think that he revels in the limelight of being a Premier League club chairman. Don't forget that he claimed to be a reluctant purchaser of the club saying that he would hand over once the club had been stabilised and a prospective buyer had been found. That was 12 years ago and he has shown no signs of wanting to relinquish the reigns yet

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Jan 23 10.34am
Originally posted by hythemaceagle And of course it doesn’t help that Brighton are doing so well on a limited budget. Their scouting team must be the envy of all. And they’re selling players on for huge profits! Sorry to rub salt in the wounds. Seasons 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 Brighton's Net Spend was around £190 Mill.Our Net Spend over those seasons was under £10 Mill. I accept they have made profits on players : Cucurella was signed for circa £15 Mill and sold for £50 Mill rising to £62 Mill. Bissouma was signed for £15 Mill and sold for £25 Mill rising to £30 Mill. White was a product of their academy and was sold for £50 Mill. They will make a sizeable profit when Mac Allister is sold. They will also make a profit on Trossard who was signed for £18 Mill and Caicedo whom they acquired for £4 Mill.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Jan 23 10.34am

Originally posted by hythemaceagle

Seasons 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 Brighton's Net Spend was around £190 Mill.Our Net Spend over those seasons was under £10 Mill.

I accept they have made profits on players : Cucurella was signed for circa £15 Mill and sold for £50 Mill rising to £62 Mill.
Bissouma was signed for £15 Mill and sold for £25 Mill rising to £30 Mill.
White was a product of their academy and was sold for £50 Mill.
They will make a sizeable profit when Mac Allister is sold.
They will also make a profit on Trossard who was signed for £18 Mill and Caicedo whom they acquired for £4 Mill.

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 16 Jan 23 10.44am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle I have speculated on other threads that the elephant in the room could well be Parish's comparative lack of wealth as it is traditional in situations of multiple share owners that they invest in proportion to their shareholdings so if we need £0m of funding then Parish has to stump up £9m which he may well not have. I'm not sure that your comment about Parish not wanting to stay much longer is accurate as I think that he revels in the limelight of being a Premier League club chairman. Don't forget that he claimed to be a reluctant purchaser of the club saying that he would hand over once the club had been stabilised and a prospective buyer had been found. That was 12 years ago and he has shown no signs of wanting to relinquish the reigns yet Well I did say it was only a suspicion of mine. Borne from a conversation I had with a mate that knows SP . Parish will be 60 in 3 years time and may well decide to cash his chips in. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 16 Jan 23 10.44am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Well I did say it was only a suspicion of mine. Borne from a conversation I had with a mate that knows SP . Parish will be 60 in 3 years time and may well decide to cash his chips in.

Old, Ungifted and White

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Pierre Purley 16 Jan 23 11.33am
Originally posted by Willo Seasons 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 Brighton's Net Spend was around £190 Mill.Our Net Spend over those seasons was under £10 Mill. I accept they have made profits on players : Cucurella was signed for circa £15 Mill and sold for £50 Mill rising to £62 Mill. Bissouma was signed for £15 Mill and sold for £25 Mill rising to £30 Mill. White was a product of their academy and was sold for £50 Mill. They will make a sizeable profit when Mac Allister is sold. They will also make a profit on Trossard who was signed for £18 Mill and Caicedo whom they acquired for £4 Mill. However Willo you forgot to mention how much Brighton are in hoc to Tony Bloom. It is something north of £425m. Now if Palace had a financial resource like that we would have built our academy earlier and be benefitting from it big time, be further on with our stadium development and have much higher quality Premiership squad to select from each week but we are where we are. Which is a much improved place from where where we once were. We are just having to do it a harder way, which takes longer!
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Pierre

Purley 16 Jan 23 11.33am

Originally posted by Willo

Seasons 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 Brighton's Net Spend was around £190 Mill.Our Net Spend over those seasons was under £10 Mill.

However Willo you forgot to mention how much Brighton are in hoc to Tony Bloom. It is something north of £425m. Now if Palace had a financial resource like that we would have built our academy earlier and be benefitting from it big time, be further on with our stadium development and have much higher quality Premiership squad to select from each week but we are where we are.
Which is a much improved place from where where we once were.
We are just having to do it a harder way, which takes longer!

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Den1923 16 Jan 23 12.11pm
Originally posted by Willo Seasons 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 Brighton's Net Spend was around £190 Mill.Our Net Spend over those seasons was under £10 Mill. I accept they have made profits on players : Cucurella was signed for circa £15 Mill and sold for £50 Mill rising to £62 Mill. Bissouma was signed for £15 Mill and sold for £25 Mill rising to £30 Mill. White was a product of their academy and was sold for £50 Mill. They will make a sizeable profit when Mac Allister is sold. They will also make a profit on Trossard who was signed for £18 Mill and Caicedo whom they acquired for £4 Mill. Attachment: fullsizeoutput_bc7.jpeg (508.93Kb)
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Den1923

16 Jan 23 12.11pm

Originally posted by Willo

Seasons 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 Brighton's Net Spend was around £190 Mill.Our Net Spend over those seasons was under £10 Mill.

Attachment: fullsizeoutput_bc7.jpeg (508.93Kb)

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taylors lovechild 16 Jan 23 1.22pm
Originally posted by NEILLO I’m not going to argue the point about Vieira being out of his depth, but it’s amusing to see an increasing number of posts getting misty eyed about the likes of Pulis, Allardyce, and Roy. A year ago, Vieira was being given plaudits for steering the club in a different playing direction while achieving similar results to Hodgson. I think it’s better to focus on what is different this season. And my view is that Vieira has been left with an unbalanced squad largely populated with young players not ready for regular first team football, senior players that are past their best, and a lack of genuine competition for places. So the job today would probably suit one of the previously mentioned names. Parish wanted and got, a playing ‘ re set ‘. That was what Vieira delivered. Unfortunately the club is not able to provide the finance to sustain and build upon the work done last year. It’s a results business so if, as most expect, we lose our next 3/4 games, then Vieira will be vulnerable. And that would probably end in another ‘ re set ‘ as Parish brings in another pragmatist as manager. That would be a shame as we were on the cusp of entering a new era . I agree with all that, aside from I don't think Parish would pull the trigger unless we start losing the games against those below us (which don't come around until April). I also think Pulis and Allardyce can be stricken from the record as both only stuck around for less than a season. Pulis showed at WBA that his style was rapidly falling behind the times. I still think Allardyce could have been a success though as he was less one-dimensional. By the end of Roy's reign teams had found us out and we were clinging on and scraping by on rather lucky wins and draws. Vieira may fail, but I think some fans are too impatient. If the club sign a couple of first-team ready players that he wants and we don't improve then it's fair to ask questions. You have to remember the likes of Eze, Olise, Guehi and Mitchell still have a lot to learn and sometimes that shows.
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taylors lovechild

16 Jan 23 1.22pm

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Originally posted by NEILLO

I’m not going to argue the point about Vieira being out of his depth, but it’s amusing to see an increasing number of posts getting misty eyed about the likes of Pulis, Allardyce, and Roy.

I agree with all that, aside from I don't think Parish would pull the trigger unless we start losing the games against those below us (which don't come around until April). I also think Pulis and Allardyce can be stricken from the record as both only stuck around for less than a season. Pulis showed at WBA that his style was rapidly falling behind the times. I still think Allardyce could have been a success though as he was less one-dimensional. By the end of Roy's reign teams had found us out and we were clinging on and scraping by on rather lucky wins and draws.

Vieira may fail, but I think some fans are too impatient. If the club sign a couple of first-team ready players that he wants and we don't improve then it's fair to ask questions. You have to remember the likes of Eze, Olise, Guehi and Mitchell still have a lot to learn and sometimes that shows.

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Vectis 16 Jan 23 3.16pm
You are correct about Brighton’s net spend 3 to 5 years ago, but more relevant are the figures for the last 5 years: 16) Crystal Palace: £-72.8m 22/23: £-26.23m 21/22: £-77.05m (12th) 20/21: £-2.16m (14th) 19/20: £43m (14th) 18/19: £-10.35m (12th) 17) Brighton: £-62m 22/23: £56.03m 21/22: £3.15m (9th) 20/21: £-7.11m (16th) 19/20: £-59.8m (15th) 18/19: £-66.24m (17th) Source: [Link] Placing them 16th and 17th in the Premier League net spend table. Brighton’s average over this time per year is £2m less than Palace! Originally posted by Willo Seasons 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 Brighton's Net Spend was around £190 Mill.Our Net Spend over those seasons was under £10 Mill. I accept they have made profits on players : Cucurella was signed for circa £15 Mill and sold for £50 Mill rising to £62 Mill. Bissouma was signed for £15 Mill and sold for £25 Mill rising to £30 Mill. White was a product of their academy and was sold for £50 Mill. They will make a sizeable profit when Mac Allister is sold. They will also make a profit on Trossard who was signed for £18 Mill and Caicedo whom they acquired for £4 Mill.
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Vectis

16 Jan 23 3.16pm

You are correct about Brighton’s net spend 3 to 5 years ago, but more relevant are the figures for the last 5 years:

16) Crystal Palace: £-72.8m
22/23: £-26.23m
21/22: £-77.05m (12th)
20/21: £-2.16m (14th)
19/20: £43m (14th)
18/19: £-10.35m (12th)

17) Brighton: £-62m
22/23: £56.03m
21/22: £3.15m (9th)
20/21: £-7.11m (16th)
19/20: £-59.8m (15th)
18/19: £-66.24m (17th)

Source: [Link]

Placing them 16th and 17th in the Premier League net spend table. Brighton’s average over this time per year is £2m less than Palace!

Originally posted by Willo

Seasons 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20 Brighton's Net Spend was around £190 Mill.Our Net Spend over those seasons was under £10 Mill.

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Vaibow vancouver/croydon 16 Jan 23 3.29pm
Originally posted by Painter You missed the point. Yes they are multiple trophy winners, but they struggled to beat us, without their keeper on form, who cost £70m they wouldn't of done. Right........ This was once a quality forum....
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Vaibow

vancouver/croydon 16 Jan 23 3.29pm

Originally posted by Painter

You missed the point. Yes they are multiple trophy winners, but they struggled to beat us, without their keeper on form, who cost £70m they wouldn't of done.

Right........

This was once a quality forum....

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