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Covid vaccine
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 Spiderman  Horsham 16 Jan 21 9.26am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Pimlico plumbers not hiring, and firing anybody who doesn’t have the vaccine Charlie Mullins is going to pay for once they’re available privately. Is he going to check customers as well? Welcome to big business and government. This will be about staff availability and job bookings as much as anything else. I wonder if he has or will stop them travelling abroad?
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| Spiderman Horsham 16 Jan 21 9.31am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Pimlico plumbers not hiring, and firing anybody who doesn’t have the vaccine Charlie Mullins is going to pay for once they’re available privately. Is he going to check customers as well? Welcome to big business and government. This will be about staff availability and job bookings as much as anything else. Here is the article. “Not putting any pressure on workers to have the jab”
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Jan 21 9.37am |
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Originally posted by becky
For your older residents, maybe the vaccine will not be the answer you expected...... Incredibly stupid article from the Daily Express.
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Jan 21 9.41am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Our residents were vaccinated on Sunday by a team from outside They developed the disease 3 to 4 days later. You do the maths The vaccines have little effect for the first two weeks. The immune response kicks in by three weeks and carries on ramping up for a few more weeks. They would have been fine by February. The three week window is always a deep worry.
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 becky over the moon 16 Jan 21 11.09am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Incredibly stupid article from the Daily Express. Perhaps the BMJ is more to your taste? ....and they also mention similar cases in Germany, so there would seem to be something to it Edited by becky (16 Jan 2021 11.10am)
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Jan 21 12.10pm |
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Originally posted by becky
Perhaps the BMJ is more to your taste? ....and they also mention similar cases in Germany, so there would seem to be something to it Edited by becky (16 Jan 2021 11.10am) Yes it is thanks Even the Sun's coverage was better In the UK ultra vulnerable people are assessed by GPs before being offered a vaccine. Giving people on end of life care the vaccine is an interesting choice. I am sure there is a logic but I don't think that would be the approach in the UK. It is of course very difficult to work out whether and to what extent end of life is accelerated by giving someone a vaccine, or indeed a different breakfast cereal. We know the vaccines cause some feverish symptoms in some people, so one would think not a wise thing to do unless the alternative is almost certain accelerated death from COVID. Meanwhile sensationalise such matters to sell newspapers, just don't worry about the effects upon sentiment and therefore uptake of the vaccine.
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| Eaglecoops CR3 16 Jan 21 1.27pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Yes it is thanks Even the Sun's coverage was better In the UK ultra vulnerable people are assessed by GPs before being offered a vaccine. Giving people on end of life care the vaccine is an interesting choice. I am sure there is a logic but I don't think that would be the approach in the UK. It is of course very difficult to work out whether and to what extent end of life is accelerated by giving someone a vaccine, or indeed a different breakfast cereal. We know the vaccines cause some feverish symptoms in some people, so one would think not a wise thing to do unless the alternative is almost certain accelerated death from COVID. Meanwhile sensationalise such matters to sell newspapers, just don't worry about the effects upon sentiment and therefore uptake of the vaccine. I’m not sure the BMJ have that sort of thing in mind when they go to print with this information. If there is some genuine concern out there that affects a small percentage of people, then they deserve to know. If it puts other people off having it well that’s their problem as an individual to reconcile, but you should not hide information for any reason.
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| becky over the moon 16 Jan 21 2.13pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Yes it is thanks Even the Sun's coverage was better In the UK ultra vulnerable people are assessed by GPs before being offered a vaccine. Giving people on end of life care the vaccine is an interesting choice. I am sure there is a logic but I don't think that would be the approach in the UK. It is of course very difficult to work out whether and to what extent end of life is accelerated by giving someone a vaccine, or indeed a different breakfast cereal. We know the vaccines cause some feverish symptoms in some people, so one would think not a wise thing to do unless the alternative is almost certain accelerated death from COVID. Meanwhile sensationalise such matters to sell newspapers, just don't worry about the effects upon sentiment and therefore uptake of the vaccine. Presumably, if they vaccinate everyone else except those on end of life care, then they would still have to enforce measures to safeguard the un-vaccinated which would defeat the object of the others having the vaccine in the first place.
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BlueJay  UK 16 Jan 21 2.21pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
I’m not sure the BMJ have that sort of thing in mind when they go to print with this information. If there is some genuine concern out there that affects a small percentage of people, then they deserve to know. If it puts other people off having it well that’s their problem as an individual to reconcile, but you should not hide information for any reason. I think he was more referring to the spin put on it by certain newspapers rather than questioning anything about the BMJ piece. It's perfectly valid to highlight this, but it has to be put in the wider context of the considerable risk to the elderly of covid-19 as well as the fact that several million vaccinations have taken place in various countries without these same concerns so far. It may be though that if people are currently 'very sick' it can have an impact so that's certainly worth further investigation. There is a danger of cherrypicking and coming to alarmists or overly sweeping conclusions that result in the elderly in general not getting vaccinated where they otherwise would. Logically this would appear to be of significance consequence too. We certainly shouldn't hide information. Nor should we solely highlight information to disproportionately push a perspective beyond what the wider facts of the matter show.
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| becky over the moon 16 Jan 21 2.28pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
I think he was more referring to the spin put on it by certain newspapers rather than questioning anything about the BMJ piece. It's perfectly valid to highlight this, but it has to be put in the wider context of the considerable risk to the elderly of covid-19 as well as the fact that several million vaccinations have taken place in various countries without these same concerns so far. It may be though that if people are currently 'very sick' it can have an impact so that's certainly worth further investigation. There is a danger of cherrypicking and coming to alarmists or overly sweeping conclusions that result in the elderly in general not getting vaccinated where they otherwise would. Logically this would appear to be of significance consequence too. We certainly shouldn't hide information. Nor should we solely highlight information to disproportionately push a perspective beyond what the wider facts of the matter show.
The thing is that, for a vaccine being given to tens of millions, it was only tested on a very small number of, presumably, younger, fit and healthy people (and remember half of those in the test were given a placebo anyway). It's hardly surprising really that these sort of problems are only now coming to light. How many countries have failed to mark or report cases, I wonder?
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Jan 21 2.36pm |
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Originally posted by becky
The thing is that, for a vaccine being given to tens of millions, it was only tested on a very small number of, presumably, younger, fit and healthy people (and remember half of those in the test were given a placebo anyway). It's hardly surprising really that these sort of problems are only now coming to light. How many countries have failed to mark or report cases, I wonder? From where has this information come? Do you think 11,636 is a small number?
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| Mapletree Croydon 16 Jan 21 2.40pm |
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Originally posted by becky
Presumably, if they vaccinate everyone else except those on end of life care, then they would still have to enforce measures to safeguard the un-vaccinated which would defeat the object of the others having the vaccine in the first place. We shall continue to have safeguard measures in place in any case for vulnerable people. It does not defeat the object. When sufficient vaccinations have been deployed the likelihood of catching the virus drops for all. End of life patients, surprisingly enough, generally are not eating their dinners with other residents. PPE is always used when giving them care. As previously stated, only a small proportion of people may have contra-indications for vaccination, and currently mostly that is only due to high levels of caution rather than scientific certainty.
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