the point is that BOTH parties were to blame for PFI which is good value only in the short term and very bad value in the long term, and all the little people (stakeholders) take the risk and the big people (investors) get the reward - and this is what has to stop, risk and reward have to be put in the right places. Take hospitals, not enough salary, contract rights nor appreciation go to magnificent staff and too much money and job security goes to managers, HR and suited sharks be they recruitment agencies or over-charging providers.

Yep. If anything, it is the Tories who will do better in Scotland come 2024. I note now that with the oil price as it is the noises about independence seem to have been stilled.

Issue for Labour is its supposed 'tribal' vote in England. It has gone and they will struggle to get it back primarily because they still have not grasped the reality of losing it yet.

What Labour are now is primarily a Social Democratic political entity in terms of its membership and leadership who need a traditional white working-class mass vote to get it into power again. The disconnect between what it represents to itself as what it needs convey to the voters it has taken for granted is huge. Goes way beyond Brexit.

Labour gained a single seat from the Tories in 2019. Putney. And Sir Starmer is the perfect leader to help them retain that in 2024.

But elsewhere? In the North? No. He represents every single facet of why Labour lost. Metropolitan, socially liberal and the primary driving force behind thinking a second referendum on Brexit was a smashing idea.

This is a man who thought it a good idea to appoint Naz Shah as community cohesion shadow minister. WTF? Seriously? It is Starmer's equivalent of making Margaret Hodge the minister for Children.

The man looks the part of solid Establishment figure but in political terms appears almost retarded. The Tim nice but Dim of the modern era.

Then again, if things fall apart economically for years and we are still suffering come the next election he could shock us.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Apr 2020 5.14pm)

Starmer is an Islington remainer, agreed - but the membership of the Labour Party has not changed - they type of leader they have voted for has, and he will have good insight into how to get the 'white working class' vote back. As for the disconnect that is interesting - I went off Starmer during the conference when he absolutely blanched at the motion to abolish private education - I don't agree with abolition, I would prefer private schools to give much more input in terms of standards and resources into the state sector so that they earn their charity status - we have a two-tier education system, only the wealthy middle class can consider university these days, the Labour front bench will have most of its kids at private schools, which is nauseating, I am waiting for someone to propose having a more technical education, combining academic and vocational to apply to aspects of engineering for example, that's a way to get the more practically inclined up the ladder, that's the deep stuff, as well as his ideas on the type of employment we need. As far as PR is concerned Corbyn was seen by 'Workington man' as being unpatriotic and lacking leadership, Starmer won't have that problem. If he can produce a coherent realistic alternative vision with a team behind him that appeal to different types of voter the Labour Party will be in contention to win the next election, a massive ask, but I think Starmer (former DPP) is far from dim and in these uncertain times you could not write him off - he may be leader of a national government at some point - that is not far fetched.

The huge outlier in all of this but, and this where the Tories trump Labour continually, they can be far more flexible economically than Labour can socially.

So the Tories can effectively socialise our entire economy based on what is happening now and essentially be seen as doing the right thing. Steal Labours thunder from them on that.

Leaving what? Social issues? A Labour party that will be pushing for more flexible borders if not a full return to freedom of movement. A Labour party that wants allow a Bill to wake up in the morning, stick on a nice frock and then pronounced him/her/its self as a Betty and we are all meant to just play along on pain of possible imprisonment if we voice anything other than complete adherence.

And I could go on and on.

As it stands Labour are far too rigid in term of its social policy. Institutionally incapable of being flexible what so ever on a myriad of causes and issues that put it at complete odds with the wider populace it needs to win over.

Labours problems are far deeper than Starmer. Starmer just represents the manifestation of a general head buried in the sand mindset of the Left. They still don't get why they lost so badly in December despite it being glaringly obvious to anybody with even the slightest understanding of British politics.

The huge outlier in all of this but, and this where the Tories trump Labour continually, they can be far more flexible economically than Labour can socially.

So the Tories can effectively socialise our entire economy based on what is happening now and essentially be seen as doing the right thing. Steal Labours thunder from them on that.

Leaving what? Social issues? A Labour party that will be pushing for more flexible borders if not a full return to freedom of movement. A Labour party that wants allow a Bill to wake up in the morning, stick on a nice frock and then pronounced him/her/its self as a Betty and we are all meant to just play along on pain of possible imprisonment if we voice anything other than complete adherence.

And I could go on and on.

As it stands Labour are far too rigid in term of its social policy. Institutionally incapable of being flexible what so ever on a myriad of causes and issues that put it at complete odds with the wider populace it needs to win over.

Labours problems are far deeper than Starmer. Starmer just represents the manifestation of a general head buried in the sand mindset of the Left. They still don't get why they lost so badly in December despite it being glaringly obvious to anybody with even the slightest understanding of British politics.