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More unfairness for males

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Stirlingsays Flag 19 Dec 17 2.25pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The system protects rapists, because we pursue the cases as if they were any other crime, which means that reasonable doubt defences are very successful, in a way that they aren't in most other cases.

This is a very unfair criticism of the system which completely ignores the difficulties of this particular crime.

Most crimes involve proving that someone did a particular act or not. Prove they did it....guilty.

Rape requires more than this......Proving that A had sex with B does not make them guilty. To criticise this is problematical for justice.

It sounds like you want justice based upon percentages that you think should apply.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Dec 17 3.01pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

This is a very unfair criticism of the system which completely ignores the difficulties of this particular crime.

Most crimes involve proving that someone did a particular act or not. Prove they did it....guilty.

Rape requires more than this......Proving that A had sex with B does not make them guilty. To criticise this is problematical for justice.

It sounds like you want justice based upon percentages that you think should apply.

My concern here is that we have a system of justice that isn't actually functioning as required. Its not the percentages per se, but that what lies behind those figures is that a lot of offenders are getting away with it, and probably re-offending.

However I don't really know what the solution is. I like the idea of reasonable doubt as a measure - but its concerning that only one area of crime, arguably the second most serious offence, its failing society.

Probably the best approach I can think of, is that prior to trial, the jury are given a directive of what and what isn't consent, what is and isn't acceptable as a defence in law (i.e. just because someone goes home with you, doesn't mean they consent; that consent can be withdrawn and so on).

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Dec 17 3.11pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So a gang of girls molested you and this makes you feel sorry for the plight of women?

Not particularly, I just have empathy with women. I can imagine what it must be like as a man to be sexually violated, and that seems pretty horrible and humiliating.

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
As for men(or women) being separated from their kids being worse than rape. Only a non parent would hold your view in most cases I suspect. There are many examples were women use kids as pawns for revenge on the ex partners or obtain financial gain irrespective of any legality.

The decision though is decided by the Family Court and a pragmatic reality of where families break up; which involves both individual parents. Separation from children is unavoidable in such a case, and the most common outcome is joint custody agreements. Incidents where people are granted no custody are rare, and usually on the basis of evidence of serious risk or a history of risk to the children. Even in those cases, most will allow for supervised contact orders (which are a pre-requisite to earning increased contact).

I'm curious, what should happen to kids when their parents split up? Those kids aren't being taken away - a decision has to be made, and when the parents can't do that, then the Family Court and Social services have to.

I also know several fathers who have primary custody - its increasingly common these days.

If your kids are taken away from you, by social services or you're denied any custody or contact, chances are that both social services, and the court agree, that you're a risk to the children.

 


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Stirlingsays Flag 19 Dec 17 3.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

My concern here is that we have a system of justice that isn't actually functioning as required. Its not the percentages per se, but that what lies behind those figures is that a lot of offenders are getting away with it, and probably re-offending.

However I don't really know what the solution is. I like the idea of reasonable doubt as a measure - but its concerning that only one area of crime, arguably the second most serious offence, its failing society.

Probably the best approach I can think of, is that prior to trial, the jury are given a directive of what and what isn't consent, what is and isn't acceptable as a defence in law (i.e. just because someone goes home with you, doesn't mean they consent; that consent can be withdrawn and so on).

Like most of my solutions for life's problems.....video .

In seriousness though....I don't think we are that far away from an era where most of a person's life can be costlessly recorded.....people will have everything recorded in the home and on their clothing.....doable now at cost....probably very cheap in twenty years.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2017 3.14pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 19 Dec 17 3.30pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The decision though is decided by the Family Court and a pragmatic reality of where families break up; which involves both individual parents. Separation from children is unavoidable in such a case, and the most common outcome is joint custody agreements. Incidents where people are granted no custody are rare, and usually on the basis of evidence of serious risk or a history of risk to the children. Even in those cases, most will allow for supervised contact orders (which are a pre-requisite to earning increased contact).

I'm curious, what should happen to kids when their parents split up? Those kids aren't being taken away - a decision has to be made, and when the parents can't do that, then the Family Court and Social services have to.

I also know several fathers who have primary custody - its increasingly common these days.

If your kids are taken away from you, by social services or you're denied any custody or contact, chances are that both social services, and the court agree, that you're a risk to the children.

I'm not debating the merits of the legal system when dealing with divorce, I'm suggesting that there are examples where men might have a good reason to hate women.
All over the world there are cultures where women are treated as second class. In Britain, we are ahead of most in achieving equality. Sadly we are importing cultures that are backward in that respect.
However, with equality comes equal responsibility and equal consideration.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Dec 17 4.48pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm not debating the merits of the legal system when dealing with divorce, I'm suggesting that there are examples where men might have a good reason to hate women.
All over the world there are cultures where women are treated as second class. In Britain, we are ahead of most in achieving equality. Sadly we are importing cultures that are backward in that respect.
However, with equality comes equal responsibility and equal consideration.

I don't think its comparable on the same scale though is it. How many men don't get to see their kids at all, not many, and those that don't usually have lost custody for very well established reasons - and they have had recourse to a system of justice, that I've worked in, that is remarkably fair (oft too fair I'd say).

I'm sure some men have a good reason to 'hate women' but I've never met one. I don't think its reasonable to hate men, because of one man or set of experiences - however I can understand why women are far more untrusting of men, than men are of women in terms of their safety.

I'm all for equal responsibility and consideration, but first you have to establish that people are treated equally in society. You can't expect people to act in a certain way, if your treat them in a different manner.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (19 Dec 2017 4.49pm)

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Dec 17 4.51pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Like most of my solutions for life's problems.....video .

In seriousness though....I don't think we are that far away from an era where most of a person's life can be costlessly recorded.....people will have everything recorded in the home and on their clothing.....doable now at cost....probably very cheap in twenty years.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2017 3.14pm)

Not unreasonable. There was a recent miscarriage of justice narrowly avoided due to text messages sent by the accuser to her friends.

Its not actually all that unreasonable to obtain some reasonable proof of consent, like a video or text message.

 


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Stirlingsays Flag 19 Dec 17 4.57pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Not unreasonable. There was a recent miscarriage of justice narrowly avoided due to text messages sent by the accuser to her friends.

Its not actually all that unreasonable to obtain some reasonable proof of consent, like a video or text message.

I'd like all Police interactions to be recorded and I think the more recorded evidence we have the better for protecting innocence or proving wrong doing generally.

Some people are never going to be ok with that....but I think technology solves many problems and I hope it'll have an impact here as well.

 


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Beanyboysmd Flag 19 Dec 17 4.59pm Send a Private Message to Beanyboysmd Add Beanyboysmd as a friend

This ones tough, these are my first thoughts on it...

He has grounds to sue the ivf people
The things he is claiming for a nonscence
She has commited fraud
What she did was wrong law or not
He is doing this several years later so he is doing it 100 percent for the money
He has every right to be angry over this

Those are just my gut reactions but every situation here is tricky. Everyone has let that poor lad down and he is in a horrible situation but the court case is completely about the money...

 

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Stuk Flag Top half 19 Dec 17 5.01pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Not unreasonable. There was a recent miscarriage of justice narrowly avoided due to text messages sent by the accuser to her friends.

Its not actually all that unreasonable to obtain some reasonable proof of consent, like a video or text message.


Who still retains her anonymity despite her trying to ruin someone's life for no apparent reason.

Once the police released the 40,000 messages of her pestering him for sex, they dropped the rape trial. At that point the accuser should have been named and charged with multiple offences.

 


Optimistic as ever

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 19 Dec 17 5.09pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

We all know there are bunny boilers out there but, of course, there are also violent misogynists too.

Don't think one gender can claim the moral high ground when violators, bullies, abusers and downright liars can be of either.

But, generally, men are more violent than women so it stands to reason that within a domestic scenario the victim is more likely to be female.

One woman in four experiences domestic violence in her lifetime
Office for National Statistics (2016) Focus on Violent Crime and Sexual Offences, 2014/15

Two women are killed each week by a current or former partner in England and Wales
Office for National Statistics (2016) Compendium – Homicide (average taken over 10 years)

In the year ending March 2016, 1.2 million women reported experiences of domestic abuse in England and Wales
Office for National Statistics (2016) Domestic Abuse in England and Wales: year ending March 2016

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 19 Dec 17 5.19pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I don't think its comparable on the same scale though is it. How many men don't get to see their kids at all, not many, and those that don't usually have lost custody for very well established reasons - and they have had recourse to a system of justice, that I've worked in, that is remarkably fair (oft too fair I'd say).

I'm sure some men have a good reason to 'hate women' but I've never met one. I don't think its reasonable to hate men, because of one man or set of experiences - however I can understand why women are far more untrusting of men, than men are of women in terms of their safety.

I'm all for equal responsibility and consideration, but first you have to establish that people are treated equally in society. You can't expect people to act in a certain way, if your treat them in a different manner.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (19 Dec 2017 4.49pm)

Well, women and men are different physiologically and that is an unavoidable fact.
Men are therefore likely to be potentially more dangerous in the physical sense. I'm not sure we can change that.
That said, I won't subscribe to the idea that men are always bad and women are always victims. There is plenty of bad behaiour from both sexes.

 

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