Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong - Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 16 of 74 < 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 >

gambler Kent 06 Dec 16 12.38pm
Was he the guard on that train then? Or a driver or guard travelling to his next job? Also are you telling me no one else in the whole country has a sneaky read of a paper or makes a personal phone call while they're at work?! Edited by gambler (06 Dec 2016 12.40pm)
Alert a moderator to this post

gambler

Kent 06 Dec 16 12.38pm

Was he the guard on that train then?

Or a driver or guard travelling to his next job?

Also are you telling me no one else in the whole country has a sneaky read of a paper or makes a personal phone call while they're at work?!

Edited by gambler (06 Dec 2016 12.40pm)

Alert a moderator to this post

7mins In the bush 06 Dec 16 12.52pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Its clear to me now why the Rail Industry is in such turmoil if you are an example of it's workforce. Your communication skills are like that of a child, not prepared to listen and doing what you like, having tantrums. Being old doesn't make you an expert but it teaches you to listen to more than one side of the story and not dismiss any opinion... even yours! I have done further research on this matter and have established that the Independent Rail Inspectorate have actually signed off Southern Rail's intention to run driver only operated trains as entirely safe and satisfactory. Furthermore Transport Minister Chris Grayling confirmed that fact this morning on R4 Today Programme and also confirmed that no one is losing their job or suffering a cut in pay. So it seems, you and RMT Union are falsely promoting passenger safety as a barrier to progress which has been independently assessed and given the thumbs up. As Tim said above, the strike is illegitimate and causing unnecessary suffering to Southern Rail passengers... some of whom have lost their jobs for reporting late to work. So, as I said all along, you were talking bollocks and in actual fact it is you that is the "moron" and akin to "the thicko down the pub". After all... what kind of moron would side with a Union and not listen to an Independent Inspectorate about safety? Anyway... now we've established that it is of benefit to listen to old people I will make further relevant comment... I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Zeebrugge Harbour disaster involving the Car Transporter Ship "Herald of Free Enterprise" which sunk in 1987 because the bow doors weren't shut before it set sail. That was caused by confusion as to who was primarily responsible for closing the doors. The Inquiry concluded that it was safer to make the captain responsible, ie the driver. I would also remind you yet again that many railways, light railways, London Underground and city trams operate driver only systems that do not require Guards to open and close the doors and have done for decades safely. Finally, I would suggest that the Rail Industry needs a complete overhaul to try and match the efficiency and safety of the rail systems operated in Japan and Switzerland which everyone knows are the best in the world. Our system is beset with problems, made worse by Union interference and often cost cutting and greed by private companies as well as weak government control. As it is now customary to sign off with a cheery disposition...... Enjoy your day at School little boy... X Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.03am) Hoof, you have ignored the points made about guards being able to lay SCB, place dets and operate TCOC's. Who does this when they're replaced? Are you suggesting that these safety procedures are now not needed? You admitted you didn't know what a guard was trained to do, yet confidently said they're not needed... surely you can see a daft old fool would say such a thing ? You're right, guards aren't gonna lose jobs or money... which begs the question, why are they striking and why did they turn down £2k to accept changes to safety procedures? Why are drivers striking over the same thing? They also turned down a bonus to accept changes to safety procedures. It's quite clear that this strike is about safety, and it was a PR own goal by southern to try and buy off their staff. I am not gonna comment on the ferry industry, as I've never worked in that area. I think only a moron would comment on a industry they have insufficient knowledge of. X
Alert a moderator to this post

7mins

In the bush 06 Dec 16 12.52pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Its clear to me now why the Rail Industry is in such turmoil if you are an example of it's workforce.

Your communication skills are like that of a child, not prepared to listen and doing what you like, having tantrums.

Being old doesn't make you an expert but it teaches you to listen to more than one side of the story and not dismiss any opinion... even yours!

I have done further research on this matter and have established that the Independent Rail Inspectorate have actually signed off Southern Rail's intention to run driver only operated trains as entirely safe and satisfactory.

Furthermore Transport Minister Chris Grayling confirmed that fact this morning on R4 Today Programme and also confirmed that no one is losing their job or suffering a cut in pay.

So it seems, you and RMT Union are falsely promoting passenger safety as a barrier to progress which has been independently assessed and given the thumbs up. As Tim said above, the strike is illegitimate and causing unnecessary suffering to Southern Rail passengers... some of whom have lost their jobs for reporting late to work.

So, as I said all along, you were talking bollocks and in actual fact it is you that is the "moron" and akin to "the thicko down the pub".

After all... what kind of moron would side with a Union and not listen to an Independent Inspectorate about safety?

Anyway... now we've established that it is of benefit to listen to old people I will make further relevant comment...

I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Zeebrugge Harbour disaster involving the Car Transporter Ship "Herald of Free Enterprise" which sunk in 1987 because the bow doors weren't shut before it set sail. That was caused by confusion as to who was primarily responsible for closing the doors. The Inquiry concluded that it was safer to make the captain responsible, ie the driver.

I would also remind you yet again that many railways, light railways, London Underground and city trams operate driver only systems that do not require Guards to open and close the doors and have done for decades safely.

Finally, I would suggest that the Rail Industry needs a complete overhaul to try and match the efficiency and safety of the rail systems operated in Japan and Switzerland which everyone knows are the best in the world.

Our system is beset with problems, made worse by Union interference and often cost cutting and greed by private companies as well as weak government control.

As it is now customary to sign off with a cheery disposition......

Enjoy your day at School little boy...
X

Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.03am)

Hoof, you have ignored the points made about guards being able to lay SCB, place dets and operate TCOC's. Who does this when they're replaced? Are you suggesting that these safety procedures are now not needed?
You admitted you didn't know what a guard was trained to do, yet confidently said they're not needed... surely you can see a daft old fool would say such a thing ?

You're right, guards aren't gonna lose jobs or money... which begs the question, why are they striking and why did they turn down £2k to accept changes to safety procedures? Why are drivers striking over the same thing? They also turned down a bonus to accept changes to safety procedures.

It's quite clear that this strike is about safety, and it was a PR own goal by southern to try and buy off their staff.

I am not gonna comment on the ferry industry, as I've never worked in that area. I think only a moron would comment on a industry they have insufficient knowledge of.

Alert a moderator to this post

IMpalace London 06 Dec 16 12.56pm
Originally posted by gambler Oh come on hoof, you linked to the findings of a so called independent body re safety. Whatever side of the argument you sympathise with, in no way can the body be called independent when at least one member has a conflict of interests. The point is there is an independent body in place to review this that the relevant people responsible for network safety deem to be sufficiently independent. Whether you personally view them as independent is irrelevant. If we're going to play that game we may as well all go on strike and call our working conditions unsafe for the public because we don't trust the regulators in place. There are a wide range of regulations in place to ensure that our infrastructure is safe and reliable. It's those regulations, and not the employees of a tiny part of that infrastructure that get to decide what is and isn't safe. The rail franchise system makes absolutely no sense to me and I feel for anyone who may lose their job, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking anyone who works there truly gives a toss about safety over their pay check.
Alert a moderator to this post

IMpalace

London 06 Dec 16 12.56pm

Originally posted by gambler

Oh come on hoof, you linked to the findings of a so called independent body re safety. Whatever side of the argument you sympathise with, in no way can the body be called independent when at least one member has a conflict of interests.

The point is there is an independent body in place to review this that the relevant people responsible for network safety deem to be sufficiently independent. Whether you personally view them as independent is irrelevant. If we're going to play that game we may as well all go on strike and call our working conditions unsafe for the public because we don't trust the regulators in place.

There are a wide range of regulations in place to ensure that our infrastructure is safe and reliable. It's those regulations, and not the employees of a tiny part of that infrastructure that get to decide what is and isn't safe.

The rail franchise system makes absolutely no sense to me and I feel for anyone who may lose their job, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking anyone who works there truly gives a toss about safety over their pay check.

Alert a moderator to this post

7mins In the bush 06 Dec 16 12.57pm
I also mentioned previously that whilst Southern had Birchell as CEO we had very little chance of getting safety procedures removed, he had been in court over the Paddington rail crash, there was no way he would sign off. Horton has a close relationship with DfT and is on the board of RSSB, this helped massively. I can debate with you all day, and we can leave it up to others to judge who is right... me who worked in the industry at management level for many years or you who has been on lots of trains!
Alert a moderator to this post

7mins

In the bush 06 Dec 16 12.57pm

I also mentioned previously that whilst Southern had Birchell as CEO we had very little chance of getting safety procedures removed, he had been in court over the Paddington rail crash, there was no way he would sign off. Horton has a close relationship with DfT and is on the board of RSSB, this helped massively.
I can debate with you all day, and we can leave it up to others to judge who is right... me who worked in the industry at management level for many years or you who has been on lots of trains!

Alert a moderator to this post

7mins In the bush 06 Dec 16 12.58pm
Originally posted by gambler Was he the guard on that train then? Or a driver or guard travelling to his next job? Also are you telling me no one else in the whole country has a sneaky read of a paper or makes a personal phone call while they're at work?! Edited by gambler (06 Dec 2016 12.40pm) He could be going home... taking a sneaky pic of someone without their knowledge is a douche bag move.
Alert a moderator to this post

7mins

In the bush 06 Dec 16 12.58pm

Originally posted by gambler

Was he the guard on that train then?

Or a driver or guard travelling to his next job?

Also are you telling me no one else in the whole country has a sneaky read of a paper or makes a personal phone call while they're at work?!

Edited by gambler (06 Dec 2016 12.40pm)

He could be going home... taking a sneaky pic of someone without their knowledge is a douche bag move.

Alert a moderator to this post

IMpalace London 06 Dec 16 1.04pm
Originally posted by 7mins I also mentioned previously that whilst Southern had Birchell as CEO we had very little chance of getting safety procedures removed, he had been in court over the Paddington rail crash, there was no way he would sign off. Horton has a close relationship with DfT and is on the board of RSSB, this helped massively. I can debate with you all day, and we can leave it up to others to judge who is right... me who worked in the industry at management level for many years or you who has been on lots of trains! I work in finance. If I said bankers are doing gods work and deserve monumental bonuses and taxpayer funded bailouts, are you happy to take that as read? I am after all on the inside of the industry so must know more than all those on the outside.
Alert a moderator to this post

IMpalace

London 06 Dec 16 1.04pm

Originally posted by 7mins

I also mentioned previously that whilst Southern had Birchell as CEO we had very little chance of getting safety procedures removed, he had been in court over the Paddington rail crash, there was no way he would sign off. Horton has a close relationship with DfT and is on the board of RSSB, this helped massively.
I can debate with you all day, and we can leave it up to others to judge who is right... me who worked in the industry at management level for many years or you who has been on lots of trains!

I work in finance. If I said bankers are doing gods work and deserve monumental bonuses and taxpayer funded bailouts, are you happy to take that as read? I am after all on the inside of the industry so must know more than all those on the outside.

Alert a moderator to this post

7mins In the bush 06 Dec 16 1.08pm
I worked to get rid of the guard, I also worked to screw over catering and cleaning staff. I'm certainly not proud of myself... the catering staff in particular we fecked over. When you're under such pressure to make money, you see safety as a obstacle, we worked so hard to put together a viable way of circumventing safety... you don't see it as wrong... you're conditioned by the environment you work in. When we when a franchise, we got rid of in house cleaning, and used a agency, we also made 90% of management re-apply for their jobs (we already knew who we wanted), loads of people lost their jobs, I remember one manager telling me his daughter was off to university and losing his job would jeopardise her chances of going. We still got rid of him... then after getting rid of these poor sods, our team were taken to a hotel for a weekend piss up/team building exercise... we got rid of loads of good people, then went on the piss to celebrate.. all paid for by the company
Alert a moderator to this post

7mins

In the bush 06 Dec 16 1.08pm

I worked to get rid of the guard, I also worked to screw over catering and cleaning staff. I'm certainly not proud of myself... the catering staff in particular we fecked over.
When you're under such pressure to make money, you see safety as a obstacle, we worked so hard to put together a viable way of circumventing safety... you don't see it as wrong... you're conditioned by the environment you work in.
When we when a franchise, we got rid of in house cleaning, and used a agency, we also made 90% of management re-apply for their jobs (we already knew who we wanted), loads of people lost their jobs, I remember one manager telling me his daughter was off to university and losing his job would jeopardise her chances of going. We still got rid of him... then after getting rid of these poor sods, our team were taken to a hotel for a weekend piss up/team building exercise... we got rid of loads of good people, then went on the piss to celebrate.. all paid for by the company

Alert a moderator to this post

7mins In the bush 06 Dec 16 1.08pm
I worked to get rid of the guard, I also worked to screw over catering and cleaning staff. I'm certainly not proud of myself... the catering staff in particular we fecked over. When you're under such pressure to make money, you see safety as a obstacle, we worked so hard to put together a viable way of circumventing safety... you don't see it as wrong... you're conditioned by the environment you work in. When we when a franchise, we got rid of in house cleaning, and used a agency, we also made 90% of management re-apply for their jobs (we already knew who we wanted), loads of people lost their jobs, I remember one manager telling me his daughter was off to university and losing his job would jeopardise her chances of going. We still got rid of him... then after getting rid of these poor sods, our team were taken to a hotel for a weekend piss up/team building exercise... we got rid of loads of good people, then went on the piss to celebrate.. all paid for by the company
Alert a moderator to this post

7mins

In the bush 06 Dec 16 1.08pm

Alert a moderator to this post

7mins In the bush 06 Dec 16 1.10pm
Originally posted by IMpalace I work in finance. If I said bankers are doing gods work and deserve monumental bonuses and taxpayer funded bailouts, are you happy to take that as read? I am after all on the inside of the industry so must know more than all those on the outside. I worked for Southern with the current management... bit different
Alert a moderator to this post

7mins

In the bush 06 Dec 16 1.10pm

Originally posted by IMpalace

I worked for Southern with the current management... bit different

Alert a moderator to this post

7mins In the bush 06 Dec 16 1.15pm
The only one of their current management team I don't (properly) know is Horton.
Alert a moderator to this post

7mins

In the bush 06 Dec 16 1.15pm

The only one of their current management team I don't (properly) know is Horton.

Alert a moderator to this post

gambler Kent 06 Dec 16 1.15pm
Originally posted by IMpalace The point is there is an independent body in place to review this that the relevant people responsible for network safety deem to be sufficiently independent. Whether you personally view them as independent is irrelevant. If we're going to play that game we may as well all go on strike and call our working conditions unsafe for the public because we don't trust the regulators in place. There are a wide range of regulations in place to ensure that our infrastructure is safe and reliable. It's those regulations, and not the employees of a tiny part of that infrastructure that get to decide what is and isn't safe. The rail franchise system makes absolutely no sense to me and I feel for anyone who may lose their job, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking anyone who works there truly gives a toss about safety over their pay check. I accept your points. But Charles Horton is a major player in this dispute. He is also on the "independent" panel that Hoof linked to with reference to this very dispute. How can that be right?
Alert a moderator to this post

gambler

Kent 06 Dec 16 1.15pm

Originally posted by IMpalace

I accept your points. But Charles Horton is a major player in this dispute. He is also on the "independent" panel that Hoof linked to with reference to this very dispute. How can that be right?

Alert a moderator to this post

7mins In the bush 06 Dec 16 2.35pm
Originally posted by gambler I accept your points. But Charles Horton is a major player in this dispute. He is also on the "independent" panel that Hoof linked to with reference to this very dispute. How can that be right? Some people think Horton has been brought in to do the Dft's dirty work. He has quite a interesting CV. Anyone with a degree of intelligence can see guards/drivers are right. You can't argue that making the railway less safe is a good thing. My money is on Southern/DfT winning though. Judging by this thread and twitter/Facebook.. they seem to have won over the public. Striking without public sympathy is very hard. Southern know this... that's why they did the "strike back" campaign.
Alert a moderator to this post

7mins

In the bush 06 Dec 16 2.35pm

Originally posted by gambler

I accept your points. But Charles Horton is a major player in this dispute. He is also on the "independent" panel that Hoof linked to with reference to this very dispute. How can that be right?

Some people think Horton has been brought in to do the Dft's dirty work. He has quite a interesting CV.

Anyone with a degree of intelligence can see guards/drivers are right. You can't argue that making the railway less safe is a good thing. My money is on Southern/DfT winning though. Judging by this thread and twitter/Facebook.. they seem to have won over the public. Striking without public sympathy is very hard. Southern know this... that's why they did the "strike back" campaign.

Alert a moderator to this post

Page 16 of 74 < 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors