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Confederate Flag
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 Stirlingsays  20 Jul 14 9.00pm |
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Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not
All flags are symbols.....represent different things to different people bah bah. If a Nazi flew a swastika at Selhurst I can't see what else he was presenting accept support for the Nazia or a far right group. The Confederate flag isn't just flown by the far right or slavery, it's about the South to some people...And no doubt the person flying it was making the loose 'south' connection with our club....A bit silly really......But we are repeating ourselves. It's been an interesting thread and I respect the views expressed I really do.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Kingvagabond London 20 Jul 14 9.01pm |
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Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not I see you're on the wind up as always Adrian. There is a world of difference between flying a flag that is universally recognised as representing a racist murderous organisation the world over and a flag representing the Confederates. The recognition of the Confederate Flag as racist propaganda is recognised only in the States and at that only in certain ones. The HF flew a small Confederate flag as part of a much larger flag as its red and blue and they felt it represented them as rebels/plucky underdogs. As soon as they realised that it was causing a modicum of unrest amongst the yanks they chose to take it down. That is a million miles away from anyone knowingly flying a flag to be offensive. Stop being a WUM kiddo.
Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........ |
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adrian b  Landrindod, Wales 20 Jul 14 9.11pm |
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| Stirlingsays 20 Jul 14 9.25pm |
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Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 9.11pm
A Nazi who doesn't believe in racial superiority. Yeah, you could be searching for quite a while for that one.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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MikeT  Burlington (Toronto Area) 20 Jul 14 9.42pm |
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Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 9.01pm
Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not I see you're on the wind up as always Adrian. There is a world of difference between flying a flag that is universally recognised as representing a racist murderous organisation the world over and a flag representing the Confederates. The recognition of the Confederate Flag as racist propaganda is recognised only in the States and at that only in certain ones. The HF flew a small Confederate flag as part of a much larger flag as its red and blue and they felt it represented them as rebels/plucky underdogs. As soon as they realised that it was causing a modicum of unrest amongst the yanks they chose to take it down. That is a million miles away from anyone knowingly flying a flag to be offensive. Stop being a WUM kiddo. The HF certainly didn't desire to be offensive and agreed to remove it, but you're vastly underplaying the impact. It's widely taken as a racist symbol across both US and Canada and doesn't just generate a 'modicum of unrest' in a few US states. Anybody that noticed it in my circle couldn't believe their eyes and questioned why the club would allow it. "Is Palace racist" was the standard question.
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| Kingvagabond London 20 Jul 14 9.56pm |
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Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 9.11pm
But the Nazi will say the Swaztica is not a racist flag in his opinion. So you are saying anyone can fly any flag if in their opinion it's ok. The point about the Confederate flag is that, although in the opinion of a few at Palace it was not being offensive, there are many who think it is, as this will affect the image of Palace. Their opinion is fine, but in the matter of portraying the club, it is not what we should want. This has nothing to do with my imposed soubriquet, it's just someone offering a different opinion to yours, which I hope you will allow me to do? I never have anything against someone giving an opinion, my issue stems more with your deliberate and continued desire to stir as many hornets nests as you can. Actually I'd imagine 99% of those at Palace didn't notice the Confederate flag and 99% didn't notice it being removed either, I'd imagine the vast majority that did notice it figured 'weird to have a confederate flag but ok then' and didn't think at all of it having racist connotations. Some American fans informed the HF that in the States (and apparently Canada too) it is now seen as symbolic of racism and the HF immediately took it down as they didn't want to cause an issue. I think that this was a very mature approach from them but equating it with deliberately flying a Swastika is a very very different thing.
Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........ |
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| Kingvagabond London 20 Jul 14 10.01pm |
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Quote MikeT at 20 Jul 2014 9.42pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 9.01pm
Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not I see you're on the wind up as always Adrian. There is a world of difference between flying a flag that is universally recognised as representing a racist murderous organisation the world over and a flag representing the Confederates. The recognition of the Confederate Flag as racist propaganda is recognised only in the States and at that only in certain ones. The HF flew a small Confederate flag as part of a much larger flag as its red and blue and they felt it represented them as rebels/plucky underdogs. As soon as they realised that it was causing a modicum of unrest amongst the yanks they chose to take it down. That is a million miles away from anyone knowingly flying a flag to be offensive. Stop being a WUM kiddo. The HF certainly didn't desire to be offensive and agreed to remove it, but you're vastly underplaying the impact. It's widely taken as a racist symbol across both US and Canada and doesn't just generate a 'modicum of unrest' in a few US states. Anybody that noticed it in my circle couldn't believe their eyes and questioned why the club would allow it. "Is Palace racist" was the standard question. I can't help but feel that part of the issue is with Americans (and I suppose Canadians too) presuming everyone should share their own perspective of values. Certainly, I can only assume that fan clubs in North America would happily continue to wave a flag with a Bulldog on it even if it was subsumed as a symbol of the BNP in Britain. I also assume that they would ignore a plea from British fans to stop waving it as they might rightly think 'well that might be what it means in Britain but we're in America/Canada, how does it affect them?' I understand that maybe we should look at eventually becoming a world wide brand and that part of this is caving to others sensibilities but for 99% of the crowd and the followers of Palace a confederate flag means nothing to them except possibly fond memories of Daisy Duke.
Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........ |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 20 Jul 14 10.04pm |
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Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 10.01pm
Quote MikeT at 20 Jul 2014 9.42pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 9.01pm
Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not I see you're on the wind up as always Adrian. There is a world of difference between flying a flag that is universally recognised as representing a racist murderous organisation the world over and a flag representing the Confederates. The recognition of the Confederate Flag as racist propaganda is recognised only in the States and at that only in certain ones. The HF flew a small Confederate flag as part of a much larger flag as its red and blue and they felt it represented them as rebels/plucky underdogs. As soon as they realised that it was causing a modicum of unrest amongst the yanks they chose to take it down. That is a million miles away from anyone knowingly flying a flag to be offensive. Stop being a WUM kiddo. The HF certainly didn't desire to be offensive and agreed to remove it, but you're vastly underplaying the impact. It's widely taken as a racist symbol across both US and Canada and doesn't just generate a 'modicum of unrest' in a few US states. Anybody that noticed it in my circle couldn't believe their eyes and questioned why the club would allow it. "Is Palace racist" was the standard question. I can't help but feel that part of the issue is with Americans (and I suppose Canadians too) presuming everyone should share their own perspective of values. Certainly, I can only assume that fan clubs in North America would happily continue to wave a flag with a Bulldog on it even if it was subsumed as a symbol of the BNP in Britain. I also assume that they would ignore a plea from British fans to stop waving it as they might rightly think 'well that might be what it means in Britain but we're in America/Canada, how does it affect them?' I understand that maybe we should look at eventually becoming a world wide brand and that part of this is caving to others sensibilities but for 99% of the crowd and the followers of Palace a confederate flag means nothing to them except possibly fond memories of Daisy Duke. If I see a flag with a bulldog on it, I'm reminded of the biker festival, The Bulldog Bash [Link]
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| Kingvagabond London 20 Jul 14 10.12pm |
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Quote nickgusset at 20 Jul 2014 10.04pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 10.01pm
Quote MikeT at 20 Jul 2014 9.42pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 9.01pm
Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not I see you're on the wind up as always Adrian. There is a world of difference between flying a flag that is universally recognised as representing a racist murderous organisation the world over and a flag representing the Confederates. The recognition of the Confederate Flag as racist propaganda is recognised only in the States and at that only in certain ones. The HF flew a small Confederate flag as part of a much larger flag as its red and blue and they felt it represented them as rebels/plucky underdogs. As soon as they realised that it was causing a modicum of unrest amongst the yanks they chose to take it down. That is a million miles away from anyone knowingly flying a flag to be offensive. Stop being a WUM kiddo. The HF certainly didn't desire to be offensive and agreed to remove it, but you're vastly underplaying the impact. It's widely taken as a racist symbol across both US and Canada and doesn't just generate a 'modicum of unrest' in a few US states. Anybody that noticed it in my circle couldn't believe their eyes and questioned why the club would allow it. "Is Palace racist" was the standard question. I can't help but feel that part of the issue is with Americans (and I suppose Canadians too) presuming everyone should share their own perspective of values. Certainly, I can only assume that fan clubs in North America would happily continue to wave a flag with a Bulldog on it even if it was subsumed as a symbol of the BNP in Britain. I also assume that they would ignore a plea from British fans to stop waving it as they might rightly think 'well that might be what it means in Britain but we're in America/Canada, how does it affect them?' I understand that maybe we should look at eventually becoming a world wide brand and that part of this is caving to others sensibilities but for 99% of the crowd and the followers of Palace a confederate flag means nothing to them except possibly fond memories of Daisy Duke. If I see a flag with a bulldog on it, I'm reminded of the biker festival, The Bulldog Bash [Link] In all fairness if I saw a flag with a bulldog on it I would assume they were fans of Eric Pickles Nick.
Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........ |
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| Mapletree Croydon 20 Jul 14 10.13pm |
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Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 10.01pm
Quote MikeT at 20 Jul 2014 9.42pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 9.01pm
Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not I see you're on the wind up as always Adrian. There is a world of difference between flying a flag that is universally recognised as representing a racist murderous organisation the world over and a flag representing the Confederates. The recognition of the Confederate Flag as racist propaganda is recognised only in the States and at that only in certain ones. The HF flew a small Confederate flag as part of a much larger flag as its red and blue and they felt it represented them as rebels/plucky underdogs. As soon as they realised that it was causing a modicum of unrest amongst the yanks they chose to take it down. That is a million miles away from anyone knowingly flying a flag to be offensive. Stop being a WUM kiddo. The HF certainly didn't desire to be offensive and agreed to remove it, but you're vastly underplaying the impact. It's widely taken as a racist symbol across both US and Canada and doesn't just generate a 'modicum of unrest' in a few US states. Anybody that noticed it in my circle couldn't believe their eyes and questioned why the club would allow it. "Is Palace racist" was the standard question. I can't help but feel that part of the issue is with Americans (and I suppose Canadians too) presuming everyone should share their own perspective of values. Certainly, I can only assume that fan clubs in North America would happily continue to wave a flag with a Bulldog on it even if it was subsumed as a symbol of the BNP in Britain. I also assume that they would ignore a plea from British fans to stop waving it as they might rightly think 'well that might be what it means in Britain but we're in America/Canada, how does it affect them?' I understand that maybe we should look at eventually becoming a world wide brand and that part of this is caving to others sensibilities but for 99% of the crowd and the followers of Palace a confederate flag means nothing to them except possibly fond memories of Daisy Duke.
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| Kingvagabond London 20 Jul 14 10.25pm |
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Quote Mapletree at 20 Jul 2014 10.13pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 10.01pm
Quote MikeT at 20 Jul 2014 9.42pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 9.01pm
Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not I see you're on the wind up as always Adrian. There is a world of difference between flying a flag that is universally recognised as representing a racist murderous organisation the world over and a flag representing the Confederates. The recognition of the Confederate Flag as racist propaganda is recognised only in the States and at that only in certain ones. The HF flew a small Confederate flag as part of a much larger flag as its red and blue and they felt it represented them as rebels/plucky underdogs. As soon as they realised that it was causing a modicum of unrest amongst the yanks they chose to take it down. That is a million miles away from anyone knowingly flying a flag to be offensive. Stop being a WUM kiddo. The HF certainly didn't desire to be offensive and agreed to remove it, but you're vastly underplaying the impact. It's widely taken as a racist symbol across both US and Canada and doesn't just generate a 'modicum of unrest' in a few US states. Anybody that noticed it in my circle couldn't believe their eyes and questioned why the club would allow it. "Is Palace racist" was the standard question. I can't help but feel that part of the issue is with Americans (and I suppose Canadians too) presuming everyone should share their own perspective of values. Certainly, I can only assume that fan clubs in North America would happily continue to wave a flag with a Bulldog on it even if it was subsumed as a symbol of the BNP in Britain. I also assume that they would ignore a plea from British fans to stop waving it as they might rightly think 'well that might be what it means in Britain but we're in America/Canada, how does it affect them?' I understand that maybe we should look at eventually becoming a world wide brand and that part of this is caving to others sensibilities but for 99% of the crowd and the followers of Palace a confederate flag means nothing to them except possibly fond memories of Daisy Duke.
I suspect they do Mapletree. I suspect what they would tell you it means in its origins is that the cross laid over the 13 stars meant 'we do not want to be part of your union'. Or certainly that was its original meaning according to the Northern Virginian State Legislature who originally commissioned it.
Part of Holmesdale Radio: The Next Generation Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........ |
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| Mapletree Croydon 20 Jul 14 10.36pm |
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Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 10.25pm
Quote Mapletree at 20 Jul 2014 10.13pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 10.01pm
Quote MikeT at 20 Jul 2014 9.42pm
Quote Kingvagabond at 20 Jul 2014 9.01pm
Quote adrian b at 20 Jul 2014 8.50pm
This thread is about flying a flag at Selhurst and the impression this gives to the rest of the World. The Swaztica, like the confederate rag is a flag. It's not a completely different argument. The point being asked about is whether people should be happily allowed to fly any flag they wish and that's the issue I'm addressing. If you are stating they should be able to than that includes the swatztica. As you say they have a difference of opinion and assume it is ok to do so. Ok do it then and the image this gives of our club? You're ok with that? I hope not I see you're on the wind up as always Adrian. There is a world of difference between flying a flag that is universally recognised as representing a racist murderous organisation the world over and a flag representing the Confederates. The recognition of the Confederate Flag as racist propaganda is recognised only in the States and at that only in certain ones. The HF flew a small Confederate flag as part of a much larger flag as its red and blue and they felt it represented them as rebels/plucky underdogs. As soon as they realised that it was causing a modicum of unrest amongst the yanks they chose to take it down. That is a million miles away from anyone knowingly flying a flag to be offensive. Stop being a WUM kiddo. The HF certainly didn't desire to be offensive and agreed to remove it, but you're vastly underplaying the impact. It's widely taken as a racist symbol across both US and Canada and doesn't just generate a 'modicum of unrest' in a few US states. Anybody that noticed it in my circle couldn't believe their eyes and questioned why the club would allow it. "Is Palace racist" was the standard question. I can't help but feel that part of the issue is with Americans (and I suppose Canadians too) presuming everyone should share their own perspective of values. Certainly, I can only assume that fan clubs in North America would happily continue to wave a flag with a Bulldog on it even if it was subsumed as a symbol of the BNP in Britain. I also assume that they would ignore a plea from British fans to stop waving it as they might rightly think 'well that might be what it means in Britain but we're in America/Canada, how does it affect them?' I understand that maybe we should look at eventually becoming a world wide brand and that part of this is caving to others sensibilities but for 99% of the crowd and the followers of Palace a confederate flag means nothing to them except possibly fond memories of Daisy Duke.
I suspect they do Mapletree. I suspect what they would tell you it means in its origins is that the cross laid over the 13 stars meant 'we do not want to be part of your union'. Or certainly that was its original meaning according to the Northern Virginian State Legislature who originally commissioned it.
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