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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Feb 23 4.28pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by nead1

Interesting reference to the ECHR in an earlier post; this was set up post WW2, with very significant British influence, and has nothing to do with the EU.
Maybe yet another example of the misleading nonsense about the so called benefits of Brexit! As is now fast becoming apparent, they are very few and far between - welcome to the reality of the post Brexit UK!

Correct it was setup as a response to the Communist eastern bloc the idea was to embarrass and pressurise them. Well they all joined the ECHR and promptly ignored it meanwhile in this country where we didn't have a problem the ECHR overruled our own justice system and is especially beloved by terrorists and sex criminals and those wishing to claim asylum.

You say misleading nonsense if you can be bothered to go back through the Brexit thread you will see that pro Brexit posters including myself made it clear

1. Leave EU
2. Leave ECHR

I hope we do leave, justice should be the responsibility of Parliament and the UK courts not some unelected supranational quango.

Edited by Badger11 (08 Feb 2023 4.29pm)

 


One more point

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Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 08 Feb 23 4.34pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

But if the majority of the country now want to join, how is that democratic? (call this a hypothetical, I really don't want to debate whether people do or don't)

Do we stick with it indefinitely? When would you consider reasonable to allow people to have a say again, given the EU being 'undemocratic' was one of the pillars of the Vote Leave campaign?

Broadly, a situation where you don't put something to a vote because you don't like what the outcome would be does not feel a great precedent.

I wonder if back in the 1970's, if the voting public had been given a vote on joining the EEC if they'd been told that the trading block they joined would also morph into something different, whether the vote would still have been yes.
Nobody was given the chance to vote against the transformation of the EU to what it had become in 2016 until the UK public were given the formal chance to object 4 decades later.
Brexit now has not so far delivered what the UK public probably expected, but that doesn't mean that it cannot succeed in the long term. Short term, knee jerk reactions are irrelevant; everybody needs to give it time to morph into what it will eventually become.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Feb 23 4.49pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

I wonder if back in the 1970's, if the voting public had been given a vote on joining the EEC if they'd been told that the trading block they joined would also morph into something different, whether the vote would still have been yes.
Nobody was given the chance to vote against the transformation of the EU to what it had become in 2016 until the UK public were given the formal chance to object 4 decades later.
Brexit now has not so far delivered what the UK public probably expected, but that doesn't mean that it cannot succeed in the long term. Short term, knee jerk reactions are irrelevant; everybody needs to give it time to morph into what it will eventually become.

An interest speculation, but it is only that.

How long would you be comfortable in denying people the right to vote on the issue for?

You wouldn't have any concerns with that being both undemocratic and hypocritical?


I really want to avoid debating the leave/remain argument itself as everyone is clearly firmly set in their views on that, but if we have to wait for Brexit to become what the UK public were told it would be, there will never be another vote on the matter.

 

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 08 Feb 23 5.26pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Brexit is disastrous and can only get worse.

The common denominator in the argument that somehow in 5/10 years time things will get better is that no reason is ever advanced for this, rather like brexit 'opportunities' which have now been discarded.

If the EU bonfire of laws and regulations now costing hundreds of millions and employing hundreds of civil servants does take place
it will only damage us further and our already declining trade with the EU.

I would like to talk up the UK but can't find anything positive, and really there is an issue over our competence and judgement and position internationally which did not exist before.

To be frank, we couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 08 Feb 23 5.34pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Brexit is disastrous and can only get worse.

The common denominator in the argument that somehow in 5/10 years time things will get better is that no reason is ever advanced for this, rather like brexit 'opportunities' which have now been discarded.

If the EU bonfire of laws and regulations now costing hundreds of millions and employing hundreds of civil servants does take place
it will only damage us further and our already declining trade with the EU.

I would like to talk up the UK but can't find anything positive, and really there is an issue over our competence and judgement and position internationally which did not exist before.

To be frank, we couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery.

"You would like to talk up the UK"!!!
You have spent years on here acting like a kind of Lord Haw Haw, denigrating the country while displaying uncritical patriotism for the undemocratic, racketeering EU and any other country that is anti-UK.

Edited by georgenorman (08 Feb 2023 5.35pm)

 

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 08 Feb 23 5.35pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

"You would like to talk up the UK"!!!
You have spent years on here acting like a kind of Lord Haw Haw, denigrating the country while displaying uncritical patriotism for the undemocratic, racketeering EU and any other country that is anti-UK.

Edited by georgenorman (08 Feb 2023 5.35pm)

Beat me to it

 

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 08 Feb 23 5.43pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Fair enough, that makes sense.

For what it's worth, I completely agree on Starmer - the promises he made in his leadership bid are already distant memories and he's done a complete 180 on a lot of them. He'll say whatever he thinks people want to hear.

Like women can have a p**** or men a cervix

 

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Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 08 Feb 23 5.56pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

An interest speculation, but it is only that.

How long would you be comfortable in denying people the right to vote on the issue for?

You wouldn't have any concerns with that being both undemocratic and hypocritical?


I really want to avoid debating the leave/remain argument itself as everyone is clearly firmly set in their views on that, but if we have to wait for Brexit to become what the UK public were told it would be, there will never be another vote on the matter.

Tony Blair himself said something along the lines of 'nobody realised how intertwined the UK had become within the EU State'. Which I would have thought went against one of Parliament's main cornerstones; namely, no Parliament can tie the hands of any future Parliament. But it looks as though successive Governments of both colours nearly achieved that.

The UK is free to do more of what it pleases with less interference from people and bodies that we would otherwise find difficult to counter. And in answer to your last point; a whole generation had to wait before it was given the opportunity to question EU membership. I see no reason why the same should not apply going forward.

Also, the EU has form on getting countries to vote again when the first vote doesn't go their way - Ireland, France, The Netherlands I believe all had to have another go in order to get the correct result. I don't see why the UK shouldn't buck that trend.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Feb 23 5.59pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

Like women can have a p**** or men a cervix

To be honest that whole topic bores the sh*te out of me.

 

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Feb 23 6.05pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

Tony Blair himself said something along the lines of 'nobody realised how intertwined the UK had become within the EU State'. Which I would have thought went against one of Parliament's main cornerstones; namely, no Parliament can tie the hands of any future Parliament. But it looks as though successive Governments of both colours nearly achieved that.

The UK is free to do more of what it pleases with less interference from people and bodies that we would otherwise find difficult to counter. And in answer to your last point; a whole generation had to wait before it was given the opportunity to question EU membership. I see no reason why the same should not apply going forward.

Also, the EU has form on getting countries to vote again when the first vote doesn't go their way - Ireland, France, The Netherlands I believe all had to have another go in order to get the correct result. I don't see why the UK shouldn't buck that trend.

Right, and having escaped the clutches of the evil EU and having reclaimed our wonderful democracy, you believe we should now deny anyone else the right to vote on the issue for a generation.


 

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Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 08 Feb 23 6.18pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Right, and having escaped the clutches of the evil EU and having reclaimed our wonderful democracy, you believe we should now deny anyone else the right to vote on the issue for a generation.


Basically yes. Parliament needs to be given the chance to make Brexit work; it is not an overnight thing that can decided as quickly as people would probably like but it has 4 decades of ‘stuff’ to sort out.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Feb 23 6.21pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

Basically yes. Parliament needs to be given the chance to make Brexit work; it is not an overnight thing that can decided as quickly as people would probably like but it has 4 decades of ‘stuff’ to sort out.

Thank god we have our democracy back!

 

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