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The Election Thread

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 11 Dec 19 7.34am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

[Link]

Here's a handy fact sheet to prove otherwise.

There are many reasons why the NHS is costing more, but surely the 3 main ones are...

PFI: introduced by the Tories but accelerated by Noo Labour, private companies were tasked with building nearly 12 billion pounds worth of hospiyals. Gernous. Only thing is, NHS trusts are predicted to have to pay over 12 TIMES what they borrowed in future repayments. That puts the overall costs of the schemes at close to 100 billion for the taxpayer, and the figure is rising each year.

Worth a read: [Link]

2012 Health and Social Care Act: if you ask most doctors and medical experts when the scales changed, this was it. Brought in by the Coalition despite explicit manifesto commitments not to restructure the health service, this bill provided most of the legal framework for a bureaucratic reorganisation of the health service.

Among other things, the duty of the health Secretary to provide a public health service was taken away; managers were parachuted in from American private health companies; the cap on the amount of money hospitals could make from things like parking charges, private consultations and private medicines was raised from 2% to 50%.

Again, read this for a detailed analysis of just how devastating this legislation, which had no popular assent, has been [Link]

Finally, the increase in the price of pharmaceutical drugs: Pfizer and GSK, among others, have already been fined for this practice. In 2017, the price of the NHS buying in drugs from private firms rose 34% to nearly 16 billion. We know that after Brexit, one of the main areas of UK-US trade deals will be to remove regulation on this matter.

Read: [Link]

While demographic changes are a factor, there is simply no evidence that they are costing as many billions as these issues are. For all the talk of record spending on the MY, the simple fact is that the spending is needed just yo meet the debts incurred by each of these things.

And yes, the Tories are cognizant and supportive of this. Osbourne called it the biggest mistake of his government (2012 HSC Act), Rawnseley who brought in the changes now works for a private health firm; Hancock is on record supporting further structural reforms of Health care; Hunt worked for a private trust before being health Secretary.

So if you really want the facts....there you have em.

Good factual post

I was really comparing the logic it is immigrants driving the pressure on the NHS, all over this site, with the reality of hospital admissions.

When I worked at United Health it was no secret the aim was to totally take over a big slug of the NHS. I was aware of many high level meetings on the topic

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 11 Dec 19 8.42am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Good factual post

I was really comparing the logic it is immigrants driving the pressure on the NHS, all over this site, with the reality of hospital admissions.

When I worked at United Health it was no secret the aim was to totally take over a big slug of the NHS. I was aware of many high level meetings on the topic

Like a lot of things, immigration is a factor. People can scream scapegoat al they like but it is a factor, and the more people come in, the more and more people we have had coming in to pay for the people who’ve already come in. Many are willing to be a bit poorer to end this cycle. You don’t like this truth but it is so.

Individual EU workers I’ve met have nearly all been pleasant. I can’t say they’ve all been particularly interesting and maybe that’s because the novelty has worn off, but they’re not a number to me like they were to new Labour but are or will add to the issues.

How’s first house buying going and yet young people are brainwashed for it to continue.

One day left of the most boring election it shouldn’t have been.

 


COYP

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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 11 Dec 19 9.09am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

I saw a Dutch friend last night she and her husband have been spending quite a bit of time in NHS hospitals lately.

The Dutch have a good healthcare system her big complaint about our NHS is efficiency rather than funding. She felt that too many patients in A&E shouldn't be there and should be at their GPs or local chemist and that not enough senior staff e.g. consultants work out of hours hence the delays.

 


One more point

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Stirlingsays Flag 11 Dec 19 9.19am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

It's gonna be another hung parliament. Farage handed this election to Johnson on a plate, and he's still f***ed it up.

Bye bye Bojo!

Bless.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 11 Dec 19 9.22am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I saw a Dutch friend last night she and her husband have been spending quite a bit of time in NHS hospitals lately.

The Dutch have a good healthcare system her big complaint about our NHS is efficiency rather than funding. She felt that too many patients in A&E shouldn't be there and should be at their GPs or local chemist and that not enough senior staff e.g. consultants work out of hours hence the delays.

Agree with this. Sometimes it’ll be because waiting for a GP but not a lot I think. Too many people are clueless these days. They probably don’t know what a real chemist is, just Asda. The first time most people used to go to A&E was if they broke or fractured a limb. Now people are in there looking like they’re fine.

Accident AND EMERGENCY. The clue is in the name, although ‘and/or’ or just ‘or’ might be easier to understand, even though it’s current title is fine.

 


COYP

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Stirlingsays Flag 11 Dec 19 9.26am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Why the ad hominem attack? I always tell the truth so don’t understand it

I haven’t looked at Al Jazeera for months, but at least I source information from a variety of view points

The data is all direct from the NHS

Like I said, some people are keener on their prejudices than debating hard truths

Please respond with facts or don’t debate the topic

This from a guy who described me as obnoxious.

From what I remember you described Al Jazeera in favourable terms.

The public services have become politicised and the NHS is a bulwark of the left.....just like you.

You decided to criticise others about immigration when I wasn't aware we were even talking about it. The biggest problem of many in the NHS is it's usage by the elderly who have nowhere else to go.

In some instances families burdening the state with a problem which traditionally was theirs. In part another problem encouraged by social liberalism's obsession with selfish individualism.


Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Dec 2019 9.51am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 11 Dec 19 9.35am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Okay it's prediction time which party do you think will win the biggest number of seats? A bit of analysis would also be appreciated.

In the past I had a bit of a reputation for calling the correct election results since 1994. However this came to a shuddering halt in 2017 when I completely failed to take into account the Corbyn factor.

So suitably chastened I cautiously suggest a Tory win with a majority of 40 plus seats. As to the why I think Brexit will be a key factor that plus some of Labour's crazy spending plans will frightened the uncommitted.

So over to you I am particularity interested if you genuinely believe Labour will be the biggest party as at no stage has Corbyn been ahead so that's a pretty big leap of faith.

 


One more point

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Stirlingsays Flag 11 Dec 19 9.36am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Tory 40-50 seats.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 11 Dec 19 9.49am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Tory 40-50 seats.

Good start but I am hoping to hear from the dissenters and of course if they are correct they will have bragging rights on here forever.

 


One more point

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 11 Dec 19 9.58am Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Good start but I am hoping to hear from the dissenters and of course if they are correct they will have bragging rights on here forever.

Personally with the narrowing polls and the constant last minute blunders from the buffoon I’d say 40-50 is extremely optimistic. More like 20-30 IMO.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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DanH Flag SW2 11 Dec 19 10.01am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

I think you're probably about right. Absolutely astounded that Boris has managed to fight an entire election campaign avoiding scrutiny and shouting the same 3 word empty statement over and over again and the public just don't seem to care.

It doesn't seem like Labour and Lib Dems have managed to swallow enough pride to stand down in seats that had a reasonable chance of keeping the Tory out so bit of a shambles all round really.

I would Kevin Keegan love it though if we had a hung parliament and the whole thing has backfired on BJ and his awful cronies.

 

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Midlands Eagle Flag 11 Dec 19 10.04am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree


I see you didn’t like me commenting on your use of power. I will not respond in kind

I am used to you spouting garbage so it was nothing unusual.

For your information the only "power" that I have is to issue yellow or red cards and I have done neither for months

 

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