Jeremy Corbyn

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matt_himself Matataland 08 May 16 7.09am
One wonders whether this is the launch of a leadership contest: [Link] "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 08 May 16 7.09am

One wonders whether this is the launch of a leadership contest:

[Link]

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 08 May 16 9.08am
Originally posted by matt_himself One wonders whether this is the launch of a leadership contest: [Link] I don't think so... Attachment: FB_IMG_1462694829723.jpg (27.46Kb)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 08 May 16 9.08am

Originally posted by matt_himself

One wonders whether this is the launch of a leadership contest:

[Link]

I don't think so...

Attachment: FB_IMG_1462694829723.jpg (27.46Kb)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 08 May 16 9.24am
Originally posted by nickgusset I don't think so... Since the mid 70s, the average 'Council Election' gain for the Opposition in a year without a General Election has been over 400 seats - Labour LOST seats in this week's election.Furthermore, when an Opposition has a new leader the average gains are over 500 seats.Even Michael Foot's first local elections as leader saw Labour gain nearly 1,000 seats.Contrast this with the Labour performance under Corbyn. Edited by Willo (08 May 2016 9.26am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 08 May 16 9.24am

Originally posted by nickgusset

I don't think so...

Since the mid 70s, the average 'Council Election' gain for the Opposition in a year without a General Election has been over 400 seats - Labour LOST seats in this week's election.Furthermore, when an Opposition has a new leader the average gains are over 500 seats.Even Michael Foot's first local elections as leader saw Labour gain nearly 1,000 seats.Contrast this with the Labour performance under Corbyn.

Edited by Willo (08 May 2016 9.26am)

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matt_himself Matataland 08 May 16 9.36am
Originally posted by nickgusset I don't think so... What has that graphic got to do with anything? Debate the case. Khan appears to be ambitious, he did not tow Corbyn/McLoony line during the Mayoral's and has openly criticised the current leadership. There appears to be no love lost between the two and an open call for Labour to once again become a 'big tent' does appear to be shots fired in a power battle. If you choose to ignore this and hide behind pointless and partisan graphics found on your leftie blogs, so be it. However it appears that the opposition to Corbyn/McLoony is not going to be from the 'embittered Blairites' of the party but the person with the largest elected mandate in the Party. That is a different dynamic. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 08 May 16 9.36am

Originally posted by nickgusset

I don't think so...

What has that graphic got to do with anything? Debate the case.

Khan appears to be ambitious, he did not tow Corbyn/McLoony line during the Mayoral's and has openly criticised the current leadership.

There appears to be no love lost between the two and an open call for Labour to once again become a 'big tent' does appear to be shots fired in a power battle.

If you choose to ignore this and hide behind pointless and partisan graphics found on your leftie blogs, so be it. However it appears that the opposition to Corbyn/McLoony is not going to be from the 'embittered Blairites' of the party but the person with the largest elected mandate in the Party. That is a different dynamic.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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matt_himself Matataland 08 May 16 9.39am
Originally posted by Bert the Head Labour vote share 31 Conservative 30. Without the Tory press being able to say a vote for Labour was a vote or a Scottish dictatorship of England Labour did ok. "SadIq Khan's victory was down to a very weak Tory candidate who adopted a disastrous campaign against Khan's Islamic faith" Yeah right. Anyway London 1 Racist 0 if we agree on that great. Look at Guido Fawks site and see how racist your fellow travelers are (though I don't mean you I mean a disturbing pocket of the right wing). Labour took Bristol as well and the Tory targets so I think you are being harsh. In Scotland Labour and the Tories are like two bald men fighting over a comb. All the parties are centre left apart from the Tories so of course they will get a few votes (at long last). How will Labour win an election if they do not win more seats in Scotland and Wales? You can say Labour did 'OK' but without traction in its traditional heartlands, they aren't going to win a GE. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 08 May 16 9.39am

Originally posted by Bert the Head

Labour vote share 31 Conservative 30. Without the Tory press being able to say a vote for Labour was a vote or a Scottish dictatorship of England Labour did ok.

"SadIq Khan's victory was down to a very weak Tory candidate who adopted a disastrous campaign against Khan's Islamic faith" Yeah right.

Anyway London 1 Racist 0 if we agree on that great. Look at Guido Fawks site and see how racist your fellow travelers are (though I don't mean you I mean a disturbing pocket of the right wing).

Labour took Bristol as well and the Tory targets so I think you are being harsh.

In Scotland Labour and the Tories are like two bald men fighting over a comb. All the parties are centre left apart from the Tories so of course they will get a few votes (at long last).

How will Labour win an election if they do not win more seats in Scotland and Wales?

You can say Labour did 'OK' but without traction in its traditional heartlands, they aren't going to win a GE.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 08 May 16 9.42am
Originally posted by matt_himself What has that graphic got to do with anything? Debate the case. Khan appears to be ambitious, he did not tow Corbyn/McLoony line during the Mayoral's and has openly criticised the current leadership. There appears to be no love lost between the two and an open call for Labour to once again become a 'big tent' does appear to be shots fired in a power battle. If you choose to ignore this and hide behind pointless and partisan graphics found on your leftie blogs, so be it. However it appears that the opposition to Corbyn/McLoony is not going to be from the 'embittered Blairites' of the party but the person with the largest elected mandate in the Party. That is a different dynamic. The fact that Labour did a lot better than the press would have you belive is important. Whether you think the graphic comes from a lefty blog or not does not negate the figures. Khan is right in that he wants his party to appeal to a broader catchment, but don't all parties? Not a leadership challenge, just an observation. In the English local elections Labour beat the Tories, performing better than commentators had predicted. The projected national share (PNS) figures produced by John Curtice for the BBC reveal that Labour came top, on 31 per cent (2 points up on 2015). The Tories were on 30 per cent (5 points down), Lib Dems 15 per cent (4 points up) and UKIP 12 per cent (1 point down). So Labour advanced from 7 per cent behind the Tories last year to one per cent ahead this year. Real progress is being made. In terms of council seats held, at the point when 118 of the 124 councils had declared, the Tories had lost more councillors (35) than Labour (24), the latter being well below the 100 or 200 losses commentators had previously suggested. Labour also performed better in the South where it held on to all the key councils it controlled, including Southampton, Crawley, and Hastings. Hardly a failure. But you are right about Scotland. There is time to turn this around. Edited by nickgusset (08 May 2016 9.50am)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 08 May 16 9.42am

Originally posted by matt_himself

What has that graphic got to do with anything? Debate the case.

Khan appears to be ambitious, he did not tow Corbyn/McLoony line during the Mayoral's and has openly criticised the current leadership.

There appears to be no love lost between the two and an open call for Labour to once again become a 'big tent' does appear to be shots fired in a power battle.

The fact that Labour did a lot better than the press would have you belive is important. Whether you think the graphic comes from a lefty blog or not does not negate the figures.

Khan is right in that he wants his party to appeal to a broader catchment, but don't all parties?

Not a leadership challenge, just an observation.

In the English local elections Labour beat the Tories, performing better than commentators had predicted. The projected national share (PNS) figures produced by John Curtice for the BBC reveal that Labour came top, on 31 per cent (2 points up on 2015). The Tories were on 30 per cent (5 points down), Lib Dems 15 per cent (4 points up) and UKIP 12 per cent (1 point down). So Labour advanced from 7 per cent behind the Tories last year to one per cent ahead this year. Real progress is being made.

In terms of council seats held, at the point when 118 of the 124 councils had declared, the Tories had lost more councillors (35) than Labour (24), the latter being well below the 100 or 200 losses commentators had previously suggested. Labour also performed better in the South where it held on to all the key councils it controlled, including Southampton, Crawley, and Hastings.

Hardly a failure. But you are right about Scotland. There is time to turn this around.

Edited by nickgusset (08 May 2016 9.50am)

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matt_himself Matataland 08 May 16 10.01am
Originally posted by nickgusset The fact that Labour did a lot better than the press would have you belive is important. Whether you think the graphic comes from a lefty blog or not does not negate the figures. Khan is right in that he wants his party to appeal to a broader catchment, but don't all parties? Not a leadership challenge, just an observation. In the English local elections Labour beat the Tories, performing better than commentators had predicted. The projected national share (PNS) figures produced by John Curtice for the BBC reveal that Labour came top, on 31 per cent (2 points up on 2015). The Tories were on 30 per cent (5 points down), Lib Dems 15 per cent (4 points up) and UKIP 12 per cent (1 point down). So Labour advanced from 7 per cent behind the Tories last year to one per cent ahead this year. Real progress is being made. In terms of council seats held, at the point when 118 of the 124 councils had declared, the Tories had lost more councillors (35) than Labour (24), the latter being well below the 100 or 200 losses commentators had previously suggested. Labour also performed better in the South where it held on to all the key councils it controlled, including Southampton, Crawley, and Hastings. Hardly a failure. But you are right about Scotland. There is time to turn this around. Edited by nickgusset (08 May 2016 9.50am) Gusset, if you believe that Khan was making an 'observation' then you clearly don't understand politics. It is a power battle that is happening. Watch and learn. Corbyn's words, 'we hung on': [Link] Does that smack of triumphalism? You can fool yourself, or let yourself be fooled by manipulated statistics on leftie blogs sites (designed, no doubt, by Momentum members looking to keep the 'grassroots' on Corbyn's side) but it was not a good night for Labour nor should it be by their members. Labour weren't just beaten by the SNP in Scotland but also by the Cinservatives. That is huge and reflects that winning a GE is out of reach for probably a decade or so. And this humiliation comes after Labour tried to out socialist the SNP and offered that so-called 'anti austerity' manifesto that you have been so confident would win votes. Still, this is all good for those of us who know what a disaster a Corbyn/McLoony administration would be for the country. Edited by matt_himself (08 May 2016 10.01am) "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 08 May 16 10.01am

Originally posted by nickgusset

The fact that Labour did a lot better than the press would have you belive is important. Whether you think the graphic comes from a lefty blog or not does not negate the figures.

Khan is right in that he wants his party to appeal to a broader catchment, but don't all parties?

Not a leadership challenge, just an observation.

Hardly a failure. But you are right about Scotland. There is time to turn this around.

Edited by nickgusset (08 May 2016 9.50am)

Gusset, if you believe that Khan was making an 'observation' then you clearly don't understand politics. It is a power battle that is happening. Watch and learn.

Corbyn's words, 'we hung on':

[Link]

Does that smack of triumphalism?

You can fool yourself, or let yourself be fooled by manipulated statistics on leftie blogs sites (designed, no doubt, by Momentum members looking to keep the 'grassroots' on Corbyn's side) but it was not a good night for Labour nor should it be by their members. Labour weren't just beaten by the SNP in Scotland but also by the Cinservatives. That is huge and reflects that winning a GE is out of reach for probably a decade or so. And this humiliation comes after Labour tried to out socialist the SNP and offered that so-called 'anti austerity' manifesto that you have been so confident would win votes.

Still, this is all good for those of us who know what a disaster a Corbyn/McLoony administration would be for the country.

Edited by matt_himself (08 May 2016 10.01am)

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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davidpercival Croydon 08 May 16 10.07am
what you are overlooking is that 2012 was a very good year for Labour so it would have to have been a change of revolutionary proportions to win hundreds or a thousand seats. Whereas Foot (for example) was coming back from a low point four years earlier so, whilst it shows Foot was not as bad as subsequent legend has it, it is unfair to compare the two in the way you have. BTW, the reason Foot later had bad results was because of the treachery of Jenkins, Williams, Owen etc in breaking away to the right. Corbyn's problem is not his policies, it is the Blairites on his right. Also, if there had been no election in Scotland there is no way Thursday could have been said to be a bad night for Labour. If Corbyn is so bad, how come Labour won in London so easily? Originally posted by Willo Since the mid 70s, the average 'Council Election' gain for the Opposition in a year without a General Election has been over 400 seats - Labour LOST seats in this week's election.Furthermore, when an Opposition has a new leader the average gains are over 500 seats.Even Michael Foot's first local elections as leader saw Labour gain nearly 1,000 seats.Contrast this with the Labour performance under Corbyn. Edited by Willo (08 May 2016 9.26am)
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davidpercival

Croydon 08 May 16 10.07am

what you are overlooking is that 2012 was a very good year for Labour so it would have to have been a change of revolutionary proportions to win hundreds or a thousand seats. Whereas Foot (for example) was coming back from a low point four years earlier so, whilst it shows Foot was not as bad as subsequent legend has it, it is unfair to compare the two in the way you have. BTW, the reason Foot later had bad results was because of the treachery of Jenkins, Williams, Owen etc in breaking away to the right. Corbyn's problem is not his policies, it is the Blairites on his right.

Also, if there had been no election in Scotland there is no way Thursday could have been said to be a bad night for Labour. If Corbyn is so bad, how come Labour won in London so easily?

Originally posted by Willo

Edited by Willo (08 May 2016 9.26am)

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Hoof Hearted 08 May 16 10.22am
Originally posted by Bert the Head Labour vote share 31 Conservative 30. Without the Tory press being able to say a vote for Labour was a vote or a Scottish dictatorship of England Labour did ok. "SadIq Khan's victory was down to a very weak Tory candidate who adopted a disastrous campaign against Khan's Islamic faith" Yeah right. Anyway London 1 Racist 0 if we agree on that great. Look at Guido Fawks site and see how racist your fellow travelers are (though I don't mean you I mean a disturbing pocket of the right wing). Labour took Bristol as well and the Tory targets so I think you are being harsh. In Scotland Labour and the Tories are like two bald men fighting over a comb. All the parties are centre left apart from the Tories so of course they will get a few votes (at long last). Well, I suppose I should be grateful for that response... you didn't abuse me about my disability and you didn't bang on about right wing newspapers too much, but you couldn't resist a sly mention. It all augurs well for your future postings I hope. As Matt_Himself said though and I'll repeat for the hard of understanding - the night was a disaster for Labour as they cannot win the 2020 General Election with no support in Scotland and dwindling support in Wales. Edited by Hoof Hearted (08 May 2016 10.25am)
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Hoof Hearted 08 May 16 10.22am

Originally posted by Bert the Head

Anyway London 1 Racist 0 if we agree on that great. Look at Guido Fawks site and see how racist your fellow travelers are (though I don't mean you I mean a disturbing pocket of the right wing).

Labour took Bristol as well and the Tory targets so I think you are being harsh.

In Scotland Labour and the Tories are like two bald men fighting over a comb. All the parties are centre left apart from the Tories so of course they will get a few votes (at long last).

Well, I suppose I should be grateful for that response... you didn't abuse me about my disability and you didn't bang on about right wing newspapers too much, but you couldn't resist a sly mention.

It all augurs well for your future postings I hope.

As Matt_Himself said though and I'll repeat for the hard of understanding - the night was a disaster for Labour as they cannot win the 2020 General Election with no support in Scotland and dwindling support in Wales.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (08 May 2016 10.25am)

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Hoof Hearted 08 May 16 10.40am
Originally posted by davidpercival If Corbyn is so bad, how come Labour won in London so easily? Three main reasons...... 1. Poor choice of candidate. If Boris had stood again he would have won it easily. 2. Poor/disastrous campaign trying to attack Khan as being a terrorist sympathiser, which was pathetic. 3. Khan actually distanced himself from Corbyn. It speaks volumes about the their relationship that Corbyn chose to visit Bristol yesterday rather than staying in London to celebrate Khan's victory. Khan also wisely distanced himself from Livingstone too... LOL Edited by Hoof Hearted (08 May 2016 10.40am)
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Hoof Hearted 08 May 16 10.40am

Originally posted by davidpercival

If Corbyn is so bad, how come Labour won in London so easily?

Three main reasons......

1. Poor choice of candidate. If Boris had stood again he would have won it easily.
2. Poor/disastrous campaign trying to attack Khan as being a terrorist sympathiser, which was pathetic.
3. Khan actually distanced himself from Corbyn. It speaks volumes about the their relationship that Corbyn chose to visit Bristol yesterday rather than staying in London to celebrate Khan's victory.

Khan also wisely distanced himself from Livingstone too... LOL

Edited by Hoof Hearted (08 May 2016 10.40am)

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 08 May 16 11.01am
I noticed that the Labour Leader in Scotland went for the it's the voters fault argument. Sometimes seems politicians never learn. At least Khan is saying that they have to listen to the electorate the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 08 May 16 11.01am

I noticed that the Labour Leader in Scotland went for the it's the voters fault argument. Sometimes seems politicians never learn.

At least Khan is saying that they have to listen to the electorate

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Hoof Hearted 08 May 16 11.08am
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch I noticed that the Labour Leader in Scotland went for the it's the voters fault argument. Sometimes seems politicians never learn. At least Khan is saying that they have to listen to the electorate He appears to be a very shrewd man and an effective communicator. I've always enjoyed listening to him on QT as he is quick witted, interesting to listen to and not afraid to say what he thinks and believes. He has made it pretty clear that Corbyn is a numpty and holding back Labour's chances of electoral success. The trouble is that Corbyn's supporters haven't realised that yet and continue to slap each other on the back for what they believe is a winning strategy whereas the voting public continue to be turned off by Corbyn no matter what the Tories do to annoy them.
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Hoof Hearted 08 May 16 11.08am

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

I noticed that the Labour Leader in Scotland went for the it's the voters fault argument. Sometimes seems politicians never learn.

At least Khan is saying that they have to listen to the electorate

He appears to be a very shrewd man and an effective communicator.

I've always enjoyed listening to him on QT as he is quick witted, interesting to listen to and not afraid to say what he thinks and believes. He has made it pretty clear that Corbyn is a numpty and holding back Labour's chances of electoral success.

The trouble is that Corbyn's supporters haven't realised that yet and continue to slap each other on the back for what they believe is a winning strategy whereas the voting public continue to be turned off by Corbyn no matter what the Tories do to annoy them.

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