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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 15 Aug 23 9.11am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
So you claim that the FDA isn't in bed with the drug companies but wont back that up. Just look at the mass lawsuits against Purdue. The man at the FDA who approved it's use joined Purdue a year later. So I will give you a brief summary. - Oxycontin is simply Heroin in tablet form. - The FDA approved the use of the drug for general use despite warnings from doctors and researchers that it has the same addictive qualities are heroin. - Their application to the FDA contained many lies e.g. only 1% of patients would become addicted (nonsense claim it's heroin for god sakes). - The guy who approved it at the FDA joined the company on a fat salary after they groomed him for months whilst he kept rejecting their application and then he changed his mind. As of today there have been congressional hearings and the company is now controlled by the courts whilst various lawsuits are ongoing. At best the FDA failed completely to investigate the application at worst some of their staff colluded with Purdue and the FDA had no oversight to prevent this. I already read that story and have acknowledged there are bad apples. Purdue are not though “Big-Pharma”. They are mid sized. You suggested the FDA was “in bed” with “Big-Pharma”: which suggests corruption on a massive scale. I think that is a wild exaggeration. They cooperate for sure. They have to, but there are controls and various levels of checks that ought to ensure that wrongdoing is detected. That mistakes are made, circumstances change, new information is found or that the occasional bad apple gets undetected is inevitable. This is evidence of the latter. Which a free press/whistleblower rooted out. The system is working.
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Badger11 Beckenham 15 Aug 23 9.38am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I already read that story and have acknowledged there are bad apples. Purdue are not though “Big-Pharma”. They are mid sized. You suggested the FDA was “in bed” with “Big-Pharma”: which suggests corruption on a massive scale. I think that is a wild exaggeration. They cooperate for sure. They have to, but there are controls and various levels of checks that ought to ensure that wrongdoing is detected. That mistakes are made, circumstances change, new information is found or that the occasional bad apple gets undetected is inevitable. This is evidence of the latter. Which a free press/whistleblower rooted out. The system is working. Oxycontin became the biggest selling painkiller in the US. What is shocking about this scandal is not that a drug company was lying for profit but this: - The FDA failed to do it's research this drug has been around for a century in fact Hitler's doctor used to give him injections. So unlike the COVID vaccines this is not a new drug and there is plenty of data available yet somehow the FDA ignored the red flags that this was a highly addictive drug and should only be prescribed in rare cases. - The FDA did not have controls in place to ensure that their staff were not influenced or bribed by the drug companies. - Thousands of doctors made a fortune prescribing this drug and yet so few spoke out against it's misuse. To summarise the system to protect the public was broke the regulators and doctors failed in their responsibility of care to the public. I don't believe in conspiracy theories but but neither do I have blind faith in the regulators and the drug industry.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 15 Aug 23 10.04am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Oxycontin became the biggest selling painkiller in the US. What is shocking about this scandal is not that a drug company was lying for profit but this: - The FDA failed to do it's research this drug has been around for a century in fact Hitler's doctor used to give him injections. So unlike the COVID vaccines this is not a new drug and there is plenty of data available yet somehow the FDA ignored the red flags that this was a highly addictive drug and should only be prescribed in rare cases. - The FDA did not have controls in place to ensure that their staff were not influenced or bribed by the drug companies. - Thousands of doctors made a fortune prescribing this drug and yet so few spoke out against it's misuse. To summarise the system to protect the public was broke the regulators and doctors failed in their responsibility of care to the public. I don't believe in conspiracy theories but but neither do I have blind faith in the regulators and the drug industry. Unless I am misreading the story new information emerged on the drug the implications of which wasn’t fully realised and circulated as fast as it ought to have been, which caused the subsequent issues. You can only take decisions on what you know. You can only do the research you possess the technical capacity to do. Drugs do get withdrawn and testing regimes improved as a consequence of greater knowledge. Every organisation is capable of improvement. I just don’t buy the FDA being “in bed” with the industry.
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Teddy Eagle 15 Aug 23 10.20am | |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 15 Aug 23 7.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It’s not unusual for an industry to be charged a levy to fund the regulatory body that oversees it. What’s important is how that body is managed and kept at arms length from the industry. There will always be people who disagree with decisions and claim they are wrong. Someone though does have to take decisions. Obviously there is a lot of criticism of the way the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry interacts, but it’s nothing new. Claims have been made for decades about corruption, over pricing and profiteering. Ultimately it’s down to the politicians to ensure that the oversight is robust and fit for purpose. The opioid crisis in the USA is clearly very severe but how much of this can be laid at the door of the industry and the FDA is not so clear. Developing new drugs for profit has brought us all great benefits, but also unfortunate side affects. Can we have one without the other? We can try, but with imperfect results.
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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Aug 23 7.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It’s not unusual for an industry to be charged a levy to fund the regulatory body that oversees it. What’s important is how that body is managed and kept at arms length from the industry. There will always be people who disagree with decisions and claim they are wrong. Someone though does have to take decisions. Obviously there is a lot of criticism of the way the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry interacts, but it’s nothing new. Claims have been made for decades about corruption, over pricing and profiteering. Ultimately it’s down to the politicians to ensure that the oversight is robust and fit for purpose. The opioid crisis in the USA is clearly very severe but how much of this can be laid at the door of the industry and the FDA is not so clear. Developing new drugs for profit has brought us all great benefits, but also unfortunate side affects. Can we have one without the other? We can try, but with imperfect results. Yes, just unfortunate and all above board. Thanks.
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Teddy Eagle 15 Aug 23 7.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It’s not unusual for an industry to be charged a levy to fund the regulatory body that oversees it. What’s important is how that body is managed and kept at arms length from the industry. There will always be people who disagree with decisions and claim they are wrong. Someone though does have to take decisions. Obviously there is a lot of criticism of the way the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry interacts, but it’s nothing new. Claims have been made for decades about corruption, over pricing and profiteering. Ultimately it’s down to the politicians to ensure that the oversight is robust and fit for purpose. The opioid crisis in the USA is clearly very severe but how much of this can be laid at the door of the industry and the FDA is not so clear. Developing new drugs for profit has brought us all great benefits, but also unfortunate side affects. Can we have one without the other? We can try, but with imperfect results. The fact it's been happening for decades is unlikely to be the main point of their defence.
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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Aug 23 8.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
The fact it's been happening for decades is unlikely to be the main point of their defence. f*** people with side effects - it's their problem and just unfortunate. These things happen. If they voted Trump or Brexit - they deserve what they get. If not, simply a little unlucky. That's life.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 15 Aug 23 9.08pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
The fact it's been happening for decades is unlikely to be the main point of their defence. This is the USA. There is no mystery. Their system is no longer fit for purpose. It went past its use by date years ago.
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Teddy Eagle 15 Aug 23 9.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This is the USA. There is no mystery. Their system is no longer fit for purpose. It went past its use by date years ago. Just like their President then.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 15 Aug 23 9.16pm | |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
f*** people with side effects - it's their problem and just unfortunate. These things happen. If they voted Trump or Brexit - they deserve what they get. If not, simply a little unlucky. That's life. It’s not individuals suffering personal side affects that I was referring to. It was the fact that in a capitalist system where profit is the driving force there will always be scope for corruption. No less, of course, in most other systems but we are discussing the USA. The question therefore is whether the benefits outweigh the harms?
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 15 Aug 23 9.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Just like their President then. The last several, barring Obama. I thought he stood head and shoulders above the others.
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