I agree it was a pretty terrible performance and especially away from home this is more the norm these days - Everton and Leicester spring to mind.

Forest played quite deep so Wilf upfront was pointless, he wasn't given the space to run behind, unlike say Liverpool where the tactic worked well.

For me i need more from the flair players - Eze and Olise. Both were pretty invisible.

Schlupp is just not a CM , he was awful.

After Forest scored they just put men behind the play and defended for their lives - we looked pretty clueless that last 20 minutes or so.

So all in all a bit of a wake up call for everyone connected with the club - players, managers and supporters (well those who think we might be a top 6 contender).

Now we have a 6 week break PV needs to use this time well.

Give the players a decent break - Mitchell, Guehi and Eze etc have played a lot of football and will benefit from a rest.

Get Macca and maybe Fergie fit.

Look at a younger, mobile defensive midfielder as a priority.

Don't panic. We have 19 points from 14 games - better than i thought we'd have and especially when you consider we are not gelling as a team yet.

There you go again - it's all PV's doing.

The same three performed the week before at West Ham.

Old, Ungifted and White

You are probably right with your final paragraph. But for me the issue is (and has ALWAYS been) about performance and effort. I don't care if Palace are bottom of the 4th division (or whatever it's called now) provided the players play with effort, pride and passion; that they give their all for the team regardless of ability. To see a bunch of overpaid footballers playing like they couldn't care less is really galling.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

Absolutely agree.

Equally, seeing someone or a team ‘give it their all’ and lose can be concerning but far less so than a team that looks resentful of travelling let alone the audacity to be asked to play football.

I’m not saying that’s the case at all but it certainly feels like that and for clarity I went to Newcastle and streamed the Forest game. I have no doubt that we’re the latter at home, we’d of won. That’s what irks!

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

I agree with you completely, but sorry for repeating myself, but it doesn't help when 5 of your 6 midfielders and forwards are playing out of position.

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

Nobody is above criticism. Everybody makes mistakes.

I realise that it's only your opinion, but you must surely realise that PV has to use his resources in the best way he can. You clearly don't agree with how he does that. But until the team balance issue is addressed then I don't see anything changing.

PV is in only his second season as a manager in this league. So yes, he's unproven but also he's doing a solid job. Give him the right players and I think we can expect the club to continue to progress.

Old, Ungifted and White