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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 9.46am | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Was it the ERG members who tried to chuck out the Windrush generation? I'm sure that I could come up with a dozen more "Was it the ERG members who tried to......." if I had the time. Many years ago I used to work for a Managing Director who had a similar approach to Ms Soubry in that there were only two opinions on any subject - his and wrong ones
Add to that that no-one actually wanted to "chuck out the Windrush generation" but that oversights were discovered and then corrected and it makes your comment rather pointless. I used to be a Managing Director, but not of the authoritarian type you describe. However, when you are the one with the final responsibility you have to steer the course having taken such advice as you believe is needed. Anna Soubry is fully entitled to her opinions but she is not steering the ship. Not yet anyway.
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Midlands Eagle 16 Feb 19 10.06am | |
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Reading your response brings to mind two things. Firstly you appear to be arguing for the sake of it and it matters not if your response is relevant to what you are replying to and secondly it reminded me why I don't like wasting my time in the News & Politics forum
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 10.30am | |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
not just a UK phenomenon. The Left and the Right seem to be polarising and squaring off for a fight across most of the Western World. the Left believe in equality, feminism, multiculturalism and open borders. the Right believe in social stratification, meritocracy and nationalism. i got no problem to identify with the latter group. And if lefties do not like it, let them go and live in the Third world where conservatives will have zero tolerance of their liberal huggy principles. At least you aren't in denial, so respect for that. I do though take issue with you that this is a fight between "left and right". I think this is a fight between the far right and everyone who believes in fairness. I am not of the left. I am a social democrat who believes in capitalism with a safety net. I support free enterprise and entrepreneurship. I strongly support the principle of meritocracy, which is only another way of saying that you support equality. Feminism only exists where a lack of equality exists. Multiculturalism is a necessity in today's world and to try to hold it back is just as foolish as Canute trying to command the tide. You might not like some aspects of other cultures but they are a reality, so be prepared to deal with them. No-one I am aware of believes in open borders, despite all the claims to the contrary. People get confused by compassionate responses to humanitarian crises which are the moral duty of us all. So I don't see this as "right versus left" at all. I see this as a battle between right and wrong, between modern evolved democratic principles and uninformed popularist instincts.
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Stirlingsays 16 Feb 19 12.07pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As Anna Soubry has pointed out many of the local constituency committees have quietly been hi-jacked by right-wing activists who would be more at home in UKIP, or worse. Such people are not representative of traditional Tory voters. Apathy and stealth has resulted in as big a crisis in the Tory Party as Momentum has caused in Labour. As a consequence our two traditional parties are now controlled by hardline extreme wings and the great bulk of the middle ground is not represented by them. Both of the major parties deserve to be destroyed by becoming so detached from reality and thinking they can govern in this way for long. Propping up redundant institutions is to seek to deny the lessons of evolution. That a new party is needed has never been more obvious but it cannot be done quickly enough to solve the urgent problem of Brexit. So the MPs themselves need to put personal ambition aside and accept the risk of deselection whilst they wrestle control away from those whose foolishness would destroy the Union. We can form the new party from the allegiances forged in that process. We now need a white knight or two with the money to provide the seed funding. What utter nonsense. Tell me, where were these Ukip members before Ukip eh? I'll tell you. THEY WERE IN THE TORY PARTY. I repeat because you still appear deluded. 7 in 10 Tory seats backed Leave. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2019 12.08pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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steeleye20 Croydon 16 Feb 19 12.26pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What utter nonsense. Tell me, where were these Ukip members before Ukip eh? I'll tell you. THEY WERE IN THE TORY PARTY. I repeat because you still appear deluded. 7 in 10 Tory seats backed Leave. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2019 12.08pm) The tory party is the symbol of appeasement to nazism, and the UKIP people are just returning to their roots.
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ChrisGC Wantage 16 Feb 19 12.32pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The tory party is the symbol of appeasement to nazism, and the UKIP people are just returning to their roots. What a bizarre thing to say. Do you know what Nazism is?
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Stirlingsays 16 Feb 19 12.32pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The tory party is the symbol of appeasement to nazism, and the UKIP people are just returning to their roots. 'appeasement to nazism' There is reality and then there is Steely. You wouldn't know a nazi from your toothbrush.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Feb 19 1.18pm | |
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Anyway lads, anyone want to talk about racism?
Red and Blue Army! |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Feb 19 1.34pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What utter nonsense. Tell me, where were these Ukip members before Ukip eh? I'll tell you. THEY WERE IN THE TORY PARTY. I repeat because you still appear deluded. 7 in 10 Tory seats backed Leave. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Feb 2019 12.08pm) You are the one who is deluded if you think that the fact that 7 out of 10 Tory seats backing leave means that the average Tory voter backs the ERG/UKIP stance. I won't start another Brexit analysis here but it is quite obviously untrue to make such a claim. UKIP members might well have previously been Tories but not exclusively so and, as we know, a significant number of Labour voters voted to leave as well. So what I said is far from nonsense. It's absolutely true. Only a minority of those who traditionally vote Tory would align themselves with the ERG, and especially those on the middle to left of the party who I believe comprise the majority.
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steeleye20 Croydon 16 Feb 19 1.42pm | |
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Really - 'UKIP are just a bunch of nazis' - David Cameron Conservative PM. Going back where they belong.
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Stirlingsays 16 Feb 19 1.47pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You are the one who is deluded if you think that the fact that 7 out of 10 Tory seats backing leave means that the average Tory voter backs the ERG/UKIP stance. It means they back leaving the EU. No one you support does. Those who might have joined recently would have been members before so there's no disfigurement, simply a more truthful reflection of where the right are at the grass roots level......Just as the Labour leadership are actually now a more truthful reflection of the Labour party membership at the grass roots. So you are against the majority of the Tory party......and yet you have the cheek to say that it's that fraction who should be leaving it. You are in the minority, not them. You don't believe in leaving. Most Tories do believe in leaving.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 16 Feb 19 1.53pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Really - 'UKIP are just a bunch of nazis' - David Cameron Conservative PM. Going back where they belong. Is it time for your nappy change yet?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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