Jacob Rees mogg

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Jacob Rees mogg

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 15 of 20 < 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 >

DanH SW2 05 Mar 18 2.20pm
I really do admire your ability not to care about making a huge tit of yourself Stirling.
Alert a moderator to this post

DanH

SW2 05 Mar 18 2.20pm

I really do admire your ability not to care about making a huge tit of yourself Stirling.

Alert a moderator to this post

Matov 05 Mar 18 2.25pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Oh, the 'individualist' alpha.....fighting for your country is 'blind obedience' and any objections you have with the absurdities with war warrant uprising. You implicitly criticise all those servicemen who did go over the top. They were lions led by donkeys for sure....hostages of their time and place. But without them we wouldn't have this country for ideological post modernist morons to destroy today. Countries like China and Russia laugh at attitudes like yours....while no doubt hoping for your ideological expansion. In the past this country would have been over-run long ago with so called 'alpha' attitudes like you expressed. I am very much a fan of individualism in times of peace but only within a culture of civic nationalism.....otherwise all you are is a place and time holder for a stronger more cohesive culture to replace. That's the lesson of history. Carry on changing your nappies mate. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2018 2.02pm) Some valid points in that. But essentially we cannot resist outside cohesive cultures (although I suspect that the one you are referring to is far less cohesive than you think) whilst we have an effective civil war occurring within our own. I suspect that we are on much the same side when it comes to whole slew of specific issues but a Right without the concept of individualism at its very core, is nothing more than a variant of the post modernist morons you quite rightly identify. No matter if a state of war or peace or perhaps more a grey area of conflict exists. We either stand on our own two feet or we do not. Better to fall alone than become one of a crowd, swept along by collective hysteria. The Right has to be about dissenting voices being able to come together to defend core values. Perhaps I am being dismissive of the sacrifice that many made in terms of their loyalty to a flag that represented in many ways the antithesis of what was in the best interests of their immediate family and friends but given how the world is at the moment, nobody can declare their undying loyalty to anything other than that they share their DNA with. Family above all else. Flag has its place but it cannot come with outdated notions of mere acceptance based on an accident of birth. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
Alert a moderator to this post

Matov

05 Mar 18 2.25pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Oh, the 'individualist' alpha.....fighting for your country is 'blind obedience' and any objections you have with the absurdities with war warrant uprising.

You implicitly criticise all those servicemen who did go over the top. They were lions led by donkeys for sure....hostages of their time and place. But without them we wouldn't have this country for ideological post modernist morons to destroy today.

Countries like China and Russia laugh at attitudes like yours....while no doubt hoping for your ideological expansion. In the past this country would have been over-run long ago with so called 'alpha' attitudes like you expressed.

I am very much a fan of individualism in times of peace but only within a culture of civic nationalism.....otherwise all you are is a place and time holder for a stronger more cohesive culture to replace. That's the lesson of history.

Carry on changing your nappies mate.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2018 2.02pm)

Some valid points in that.

But essentially we cannot resist outside cohesive cultures (although I suspect that the one you are referring to is far less cohesive than you think) whilst we have an effective civil war occurring within our own.

I suspect that we are on much the same side when it comes to whole slew of specific issues but a Right without the concept of individualism at its very core, is nothing more than a variant of the post modernist morons you quite rightly identify. No matter if a state of war or peace or perhaps more a grey area of conflict exists. We either stand on our own two feet or we do not. Better to fall alone than become one of a crowd, swept along by collective hysteria.

The Right has to be about dissenting voices being able to come together to defend core values. Perhaps I am being dismissive of the sacrifice that many made in terms of their loyalty to a flag that represented in many ways the antithesis of what was in the best interests of their immediate family and friends but given how the world is at the moment, nobody can declare their undying loyalty to anything other than that they share their DNA with. Family above all else. Flag has its place but it cannot come with outdated notions of mere acceptance based on an accident of birth.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Alert a moderator to this post

steeleye20 Croydon 05 Mar 18 2.30pm
Originally posted by Matov If I had been in the trenches, my hope would have been that I would be the one leading the rebellion against the f***ers who made me endure such terrible conditions in the first place and pitted me against another man who had never done me any harm. More than willing to go over the top of any trench you care to name but I reserve the right to decide who and what I am willing to put my life on the line for. This is the problem with the entire political arena at the moment, from both the left and the right. Define what you are for, and then be willing to fight for that, rather than obsess about what you are against. Blind obedience is the choice of fools, be it to a flag, a political mantra or even something as daft as a stance on nappy changing. It is quite likely that someone like Mogg would be the one to send you on your way to your death from his cosy hideout up the road.
Alert a moderator to this post

steeleye20

Croydon 05 Mar 18 2.30pm

Originally posted by Matov

If I had been in the trenches, my hope would have been that I would be the one leading the rebellion against the f***ers who made me endure such terrible conditions in the first place and pitted me against another man who had never done me any harm.

More than willing to go over the top of any trench you care to name but I reserve the right to decide who and what I am willing to put my life on the line for.

This is the problem with the entire political arena at the moment, from both the left and the right. Define what you are for, and then be willing to fight for that, rather than obsess about what you are against. Blind obedience is the choice of fools, be it to a flag, a political mantra or even something as daft as a stance on nappy changing.

It is quite likely that someone like Mogg would be the one to send you on your way to your death from his cosy hideout up the road.

Alert a moderator to this post

Matov 05 Mar 18 2.43pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It is quite likely that someone like Mogg would be the one to send you on your way to your death from his cosy hideout up the road. Again, more than possible. And I have no genuine love for anybody in our current political establishment. Perhaps Trump embodies what I most admire in terms of his stance on a variety of issues but even then, he strikes me more as a consequence of a wider political problem than a solution. Steve Bannon, now that is somebody I have a LOT of time for. And I suspect would not be the one ordering the death of milllions to satisfy the lobbying requirements of a faceless corporation. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
Alert a moderator to this post

Matov

05 Mar 18 2.43pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It is quite likely that someone like Mogg would be the one to send you on your way to your death from his cosy hideout up the road.

Again, more than possible. And I have no genuine love for anybody in our current political establishment. Perhaps Trump embodies what I most admire in terms of his stance on a variety of issues but even then, he strikes me more as a consequence of a wider political problem than a solution.

Steve Bannon, now that is somebody I have a LOT of time for. And I suspect would not be the one ordering the death of milllions to satisfy the lobbying requirements of a faceless corporation.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 05 Mar 18 3.04pm
Originally posted by Matov Some valid points in that. But essentially we cannot resist outside cohesive cultures (although I suspect that the one you are referring to is far less cohesive than you think) whilst we have an effective civil war occurring within our own. I suspect that we are on much the same side when it comes to whole slew of specific issues but a Right without the concept of individualism at its very core, is nothing more than a variant of the post modernist morons you quite rightly identify. No matter if a state of war or peace or perhaps more a grey area of conflict exists. We either stand on our own two feet or we do not. Better to fall alone than become one of a crowd, swept along by collective hysteria. The Right has to be about dissenting voices being able to come together to defend core values. Perhaps I am being dismissive of the sacrifice that many made in terms of their loyalty to a flag that represented in many ways the antithesis of what was in the best interests of their immediate family and friends but given how the world is at the moment, nobody can declare their undying loyalty to anything other than that they share their DNA with. Family above all else. Flag has its place but it cannot come with outdated notions of mere acceptance based on an accident of birth. I have sympathy for any rallying cry for individualism. However, for societies to survive long term it has to have its limits. A flag is nothing but a means to an end. It is also a rallying cry, an appeal to survival of the larger family.....without which your own immediate one is in possible danger itself. As many groups found out in history. You mentioned that it is 'better to fall alone than become one of a crowd, swept along by collective hysteria.' This is of course the musings of a thinking man. However, I suspect the real value in the matter is the judgement upon what is hysteria and what is not.....and what gives you the right to decide to weaken the chance of repelling whatever it is. A genuine sense of civic nationalism would allow a person to discern between what is hysteria and what is danger. Those first world war soldiers may have had their lives wasted by generals struggling to recognise the modern battlefield.....but they were heros. I suspect its hubris not to recognise that many of them also believed in individualism and had issues with the war. Sometimes there is a greater need......a binary choice that defines a person. Essentially you seem to be arguing for survival above all things. This is not very alpha at all actually. Indeed this is the opposite to what Churchill would have done for example. In those times of war a lack of lions....whether led by donkeys or not will lead to servitude to cultures that are willing to sacrifice...or exist in regimes that give them no choice in the matter. If individualism creates societies that ultimately fall to more collective ones.....then there has been a mistake in the equations that created them. Your children will just be raised to struggle for that incoming collective culture instead....rather than one that provided them with individualism in all times other than ones of desperate need. There has to be a social contract between the individual and the state. Intrinsic to this is that the state allows individualism while the individual commits to defending the state in times of need. With professional armies this requirement has....all but become an dusty archived tenet. However, it still remains as vital for an society to actually persist. Your family is only here and existing in the fruits that it has because lions went over those trenches and a percentage of them didn't come back. I don't think enough of us within the last couple of generations have truly understood that.....they suffer the delusion that 'choice' exists and that 'rights' exist without blood. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2018 6.06pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

05 Mar 18 3.04pm

Originally posted by Matov

Some valid points in that.

I have sympathy for any rallying cry for individualism.

However, for societies to survive long term it has to have its limits. A flag is nothing but a means to an end. It is also a rallying cry, an appeal to survival of the larger family.....without which your own immediate one is in possible danger itself. As many groups found out in history.

You mentioned that it is 'better to fall alone than become one of a crowd, swept along by collective hysteria.' This is of course the musings of a thinking man. However, I suspect the real value in the matter is the judgement upon what is hysteria and what is not.....and what gives you the right to decide to weaken the chance of repelling whatever it is.

A genuine sense of civic nationalism would allow a person to discern between what is hysteria and what is danger. Those first world war soldiers may have had their lives wasted by generals struggling to recognise the modern battlefield.....but they were heros. I suspect its hubris not to recognise that many of them also believed in individualism and had issues with the war. Sometimes there is a greater need......a binary choice that defines a person.

Essentially you seem to be arguing for survival above all things. This is not very alpha at all actually. Indeed this is the opposite to what Churchill would have done for example.

In those times of war a lack of lions....whether led by donkeys or not will lead to servitude to cultures that are willing to sacrifice...or exist in regimes that give them no choice in the matter.

If individualism creates societies that ultimately fall to more collective ones.....then there has been a mistake in the equations that created them. Your children will just be raised to struggle for that incoming collective culture instead....rather than one that provided them with individualism in all times other than ones of desperate need.

There has to be a social contract between the individual and the state. Intrinsic to this is that the state allows individualism while the individual commits to defending the state in times of need.

With professional armies this requirement has....all but become an dusty archived tenet. However, it still remains as vital for an society to actually persist.

Your family is only here and existing in the fruits that it has because lions went over those trenches and a percentage of them didn't come back.

I don't think enough of us within the last couple of generations have truly understood that.....they suffer the delusion that 'choice' exists and that 'rights' exist without blood.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Mar 2018 6.06pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

becky over the moon 05 Mar 18 3.06pm
Originally posted by Matov LOL. I would rather people think I was an Omega than let my kids have to endure a dirty nappy for a moment longer than they needed to. Good grief! They won't actually die if they have to endure their own mess for 10 minutes you know. In fact, it will probably help with the development of their own immune system....... A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
Alert a moderator to this post \| Board Moderator

becky

over the moon 05 Mar 18 3.06pm

Originally posted by Matov

LOL.

I would rather people think I was an Omega than let my kids have to endure a dirty nappy for a moment longer than they needed to.

Good grief! They won't actually die if they have to endure their own mess for 10 minutes you know.

In fact, it will probably help with the development of their own immune system.......

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

Alert a moderator to this post | Board Moderator

Stirlingsays 05 Mar 18 3.08pm
Originally posted by DanH I really do admire your ability not to care about making a huge tit of yourself Stirling. I like a clever insult even if I am the recipient. I tip my non existent hat. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

05 Mar 18 3.08pm

Originally posted by DanH

I really do admire your ability not to care about making a huge tit of yourself Stirling.

I like a clever insult even if I am the recipient. I tip my non existent hat.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 05 Mar 18 3.11pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It is quite likely that someone like Mogg would be the one to send you on your way to your death from his cosy hideout up the road. As opposed to the likes of Tusk and Barnier? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

05 Mar 18 3.11pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It is quite likely that someone like Mogg would be the one to send you on your way to your death from his cosy hideout up the road.

As opposed to the likes of Tusk and Barnier?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Mar 18 3.24pm
Quite funny a discussion over whether a father should change a nappy and whether individuals here do or think they should develops into war, past and possible future, the army and national pride or embarrassment when the offspring's nappy could just be changed when needed. Unless those chest beating Russians have everything balanced and they should lead and we follow. Time to send in the Wolf? Or leave the room or wait for her indoors to return. COYP
Alert a moderator to this post

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 05 Mar 18 3.24pm

Quite funny a discussion over whether a father should change a nappy and whether individuals here do or think they should develops into war, past and possible future, the army and national pride or embarrassment when the offspring's nappy could just be changed when needed. Unless those chest beating Russians have everything balanced and they should lead and we follow.

Time to send in the Wolf? Or leave the room or wait for her indoors to return.

COYP

Alert a moderator to this post

Midlands Eagle 05 Mar 18 4.10pm
Originally posted by pefwin Still talking crap. Still walking a tightrope
Alert a moderator to this post

Midlands Eagle

05 Mar 18 4.10pm

Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle

Originally posted by pefwin

Still talking crap.

Still walking a tightrope

Alert a moderator to this post

pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 05 Mar 18 5.01pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Still walking a tightrope Sorry don't get that one. "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
Alert a moderator to this post

pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 05 Mar 18 5.01pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Still walking a tightrope

Sorry don't get that one.

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

Alert a moderator to this post

Dave58 Ipswich 12 Sep 18 8.24pm
Whatever you think of him, todays verbal attack on his children by class war was totally abhorrent. These sick aggressive activists are total scum.
Alert a moderator to this post

Dave58

Ipswich 12 Sep 18 8.24pm

Whatever you think of him, todays verbal attack on his children by class war was totally abhorrent. These sick aggressive activists are total scum.

Alert a moderator to this post

Page 15 of 20 < 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Jacob Rees mogg

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors