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hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Oct 17 6.20pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 I don't believe he advocated the murder of tens of millions in his writings. Could you be more specific please. Which 'ideas' are nonsense? Implied by the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Nonsense? All of it, every one of his ideas. By the way how do you feel about your pet Marxist, McDonnell, training to be a Catholic priest? He seems to have a track record of believing in nonsense doesn't he. Will you be calling on him to stand down like you did with Rees-Mogg, with him merely being Catholic - not serious enough to train to be priest like Comrade McDonnell? Edited by hedgehog50 (02 Oct 2017 6.27pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Oct 17 6.20pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

I don't believe he advocated the murder of tens of millions in his writings.

Could you be more specific please. Which 'ideas' are nonsense?

Implied by the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'.

Nonsense? All of it, every one of his ideas.

By the way how do you feel about your pet Marxist, McDonnell, training to be a Catholic priest? He seems to have a track record of believing in nonsense doesn't he. Will you be calling on him to stand down like you did with Rees-Mogg, with him merely being Catholic - not serious enough to train to be priest like Comrade McDonnell?

Edited by hedgehog50 (02 Oct 2017 6.27pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 02 Oct 17 6.25pm
Originally posted by Lyons550 Do you mean cut in numbers of staff? If so, then I guess it's like everything else...its about efficiencies. Government has a LOT of deadwood still floating around in it..believe me. Like any economy the landscape ebs and flows with jobs being lost 'here' and then made up over 'there'. There should however, be a greater emphasis on Computer programming at schools now, just as there was when i was a kid...Database's are the future and will run much of the economy in the future (they run a large part already) as information is now key. What I would like to also see is those who perhaps lose jobs due to efficiencies be given the chance to 're-skill' perhaps even in those areas...after all you dont need to be smartly dressed or speak nicely to be a programmer. I think nick has a point. I almost mentioned HMRC redundancies this morning. You make a very valid point regarding database programming and querying but there's only so far that can go. At some point the naked eye needs to analyse returns and I'm not sure how much retraining someone needs to evaluate a set of accounts or returns pre and post database changes. Accounts are accounts, however they've been selected. Both points are valid, but the redundancies seemed a little high. A tradesman I spoke to a while back admitted blatant tax evasion but knew as long as he had the money dodged going back 6 years, he'd be alright. The monitoring is too slack and the punishments aren't severe enough. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 02 Oct 17 6.25pm

Originally posted by Lyons550

Do you mean cut in numbers of staff?

If so, then I guess it's like everything else...its about efficiencies.

Government has a LOT of deadwood still floating around in it..believe me.

Like any economy the landscape ebs and flows with jobs being lost 'here' and then made up over 'there'.

There should however, be a greater emphasis on Computer programming at schools now, just as there was when i was a kid...Database's are the future and will run much of the economy in the future (they run a large part already) as information is now key.

What I would like to also see is those who perhaps lose jobs due to efficiencies be given the chance to 're-skill' perhaps even in those areas...after all you dont need to be smartly dressed or speak nicely to be a programmer.

I think nick has a point. I almost mentioned HMRC redundancies this morning. You make a very valid point regarding database programming and querying but there's only so far that can go. At some point the naked eye needs to analyse returns and I'm not sure how much retraining someone needs to evaluate a set of accounts or returns pre and post database changes. Accounts are accounts, however they've been selected. Both points are valid, but the redundancies seemed a little high.

A tradesman I spoke to a while back admitted blatant tax evasion but knew as long as he had the money dodged going back 6 years, he'd be alright. The monitoring is too slack and the punishments aren't severe enough.

COYP

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Stirlingsays 02 Oct 17 6.26pm
Originally posted by nickgusset [Tweet Link] Sure, and you have a fanboy devotion to marxists who want to spend three times more than them in their budgets. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

02 Oct 17 6.26pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

[Tweet Link]

Sure, and you have a fanboy devotion to marxists who want to spend three times more than them in their budgets.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Oct 17 6.27pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Implied by the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Nonsense? All of it, every one of his ideas. By the way how do you feel about your pet Marxist, McDonnell, training to be a Catholic priest? He seems to have a track record of believing in nonsense doesn't he. I think he gets a pass. He pulled out before he came into it too far.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 02 Oct 17 6.27pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Implied by the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'.

Nonsense? All of it, every one of his ideas.

By the way how do you feel about your pet Marxist, McDonnell, training to be a Catholic priest? He seems to have a track record of believing in nonsense doesn't he.

I think he gets a pass. He pulled out before he came into it too far.

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serial thriller The Promised Land 02 Oct 17 6.30pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I think he gets a pass. He pulled out before he came into it too far. Think that was Boris' excuse as well. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 02 Oct 17 6.30pm

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Originally posted by nickgusset

I think he gets a pass. He pulled out before he came into it too far.

Think that was Boris' excuse as well.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Oct 17 6.32pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Sure, and you have a fanboy devotion to marxists who want to spend three times more than them in their budgets. A fanboy devotion? It's the policies stupid. Now those I am a fan of. Now about the Tories since 2010 racking up more debt than all Labour governments combined. Any thoughts are or you going to sidestep the issue again. Talking of fanboy...Milo, Nadjit, Farage. That's just off the top o me head.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 02 Oct 17 6.32pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sure, and you have a fanboy devotion to marxists who want to spend three times more than them in their budgets.

A fanboy devotion? It's the policies stupid. Now those I am a fan of.
Now about the Tories since 2010 racking up more debt than all Labour governments combined. Any thoughts are or you going to sidestep the issue again.
Talking of fanboy...Milo, Nadjit, Farage. That's just off the top o me head.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 02 Oct 17 6.34pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I think he gets a pass. He pulled out before he came into it too far. And Jeremy on Diane? COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 02 Oct 17 6.34pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I think he gets a pass. He pulled out before he came into it too far.

And Jeremy on Diane?

COYP

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serial thriller The Promised Land 02 Oct 17 6.38pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Implied by the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'. Nonsense? All of it, every one of his ideas. By the way how do you feel about your pet Marxist, McDonnell, training to be a Catholic priest? He seems to have a track record of believing in nonsense doesn't he. Will you be calling on him to stand down like you did with Rees-Mogg, with him merely being Catholic - not serious enough to train to be priest like Comrade McDonnell? Edited by hedgehog50 (02 Oct 2017 6.27pm) You do realise Marx wrote 10s of thousands of pages? I mean, this wasn't a man who really implied anything. He was German, and he acted as such. He wrote down every idea, responded to every criticism. If he lived today, he would undoubtedly be on here at 3 in the morning in his pants trying to explain dialectical materialism to Stirling on a thread about the Middle East. If he'd wanted to kill millions, he would've dedicated three volumes to the way he wanted them killed, the precise figure and where they should all be buried. Fact is, his ideology was hijacked by the CCCP as a legitimation of their divinity. But find any other country or ideology that hasn't developed off the back of millions dead. The Chinese did. The Americans most certainly have. And the reason we're sitting here in the 5th richest country on the planet is because our ancestors had no qualms massacring people all over the world. That Communism has a body count in no way delegitmises it in comparison to any other ideologies which have been attempted. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 02 Oct 17 6.38pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Implied by the 'dictatorship of the proletariat'.

Nonsense? All of it, every one of his ideas.

Edited by hedgehog50 (02 Oct 2017 6.27pm)

You do realise Marx wrote 10s of thousands of pages? I mean, this wasn't a man who really implied anything. He was German, and he acted as such. He wrote down every idea, responded to every criticism. If he lived today, he would undoubtedly be on here at 3 in the morning in his pants trying to explain dialectical materialism to Stirling on a thread about the Middle East.

If he'd wanted to kill millions, he would've dedicated three volumes to the way he wanted them killed, the precise figure and where they should all be buried. Fact is, his ideology was hijacked by the CCCP as a legitimation of their divinity. But find any other country or ideology that hasn't developed off the back of millions dead. The Chinese did. The Americans most certainly have. And the reason we're sitting here in the 5th richest country on the planet is because our ancestors had no qualms massacring people all over the world.

That Communism has a body count in no way delegitmises it in comparison to any other ideologies which have been attempted.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Stirlingsays 02 Oct 17 6.39pm
Originally posted by nickgusset A fanboy devotion? It's the policies stupid. Now those I am a fan of. Now about the Tories since 2010 racking up more debt than all Labour governments combined. Any thoughts are or you going to sidestep the issue again. Talking of fanboy...Milo, Nadjit, Farage. That's just off the top o me head. Well, I disagree with those three people in various areas. Where do you disagree with Labour? As for your silly waffle about the debt....that, as everyone and their dog knows, is all about the 2008 crises that Labour held the fort over....forgotten the, 'we have no more money' note left from the outgoing Labour minister have you? Unlike you and your silly point scoring, I don't blame them for the actual crises....just for the over spending before it. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

02 Oct 17 6.39pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Well, I disagree with those three people in various areas. Where do you disagree with Labour?

As for your silly waffle about the debt....that, as everyone and their dog knows, is all about the 2008 crises that Labour held the fort over....forgotten the, 'we have no more money' note left from the outgoing Labour minister have you?

Unlike you and your silly point scoring, I don't blame them for the actual crises....just for the over spending before it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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serial thriller The Promised Land 02 Oct 17 6.45pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well, I disagree with those three people in various areas. Where do you disagree with Labour? As for your silly waffle about the debt....that, as everyone and their dog knows, is all about the 2008 crises that Labour held the fort over....forgotten the, 'we have no more money' note left from the outgoing Labour minister have you? Unlike you and your silly point scoring, I don't blame them for the actual crises....just for the over spending before it. I don't get it. So Labour should've spent less in expectation of a major financial meltdown, so they could come up with £500 bill without sending us in to mountains of debt? Even surplus countries like Germany were ruined by the crash, and they'd been imposing self-inflicted austerity before 2008. Where should Labour not have spent £500 bill to free up a surplus of that size, and why the hell should our taxes have gone to a reserve security for bankers throwing loans out like there was no tomorrow? Surely blame them for completely deregulating what was a toxic industry instead? If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 02 Oct 17 6.45pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well, I disagree with those three people in various areas. Where do you disagree with Labour?

Unlike you and your silly point scoring, I don't blame them for the actual crises....just for the over spending before it.

I don't get it. So Labour should've spent less in expectation of a major financial meltdown, so they could come up with £500 bill without sending us in to mountains of debt?

Even surplus countries like Germany were ruined by the crash, and they'd been imposing self-inflicted austerity before 2008. Where should Labour not have spent £500 bill to free up a surplus of that size, and why the hell should our taxes have gone to a reserve security for bankers throwing loans out like there was no tomorrow?

Surely blame them for completely deregulating what was a toxic industry instead?

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Oct 17 6.48pm
Originally posted by serial thriller You do realise Marx wrote 10s of thousands of pages? I mean, this wasn't a man who really implied anything. He was German, and he acted as such. He wrote down every idea, responded to every criticism. If he lived today, he would undoubtedly be on here at 3 in the morning in his pants trying to explain dialectical materialism to Stirling on a thread about the Middle East. If he'd wanted to kill millions, he would've dedicated three volumes to the way he wanted them killed, the precise figure and where they should all be buried. Fact is, his ideology was hijacked by the CCCP as a legitimation of their divinity. But find any other country or ideology that hasn't developed off the back of millions dead. The Chinese did. The Americans most certainly have. And the reason we're sitting here in the 5th richest country on the planet is because our ancestors had no qualms massacring people all over the world. That Communism has a body count in no way delegitmises it in comparison to any other ideologies which have been attempted. Rudolp Rommel explains it well: "Of all religions, secular and otherwise, Marxism is s by far the bloodiest – bloodier than the Catholic Inquisition, the various Catholic crusades, and the Thirty Years War between Catholics and Protestants. In practice, Marxism has meant bloody terrorism, deadly purges, lethal prison camps and murderous forced labour, fatal deportations, man-made famines, extra-judicial executions and fraudulent show trials, outright mass murder and genocide." He writes that in practice the Marxists saw the construction of their utopia as "a war on poverty, exploitation, imperialism and inequality – and, as in a real war, non-combatants would get caught in the battle. There would be necessary enemy casualties: the clergy, bourgeoisie, capitalists, 'wreckers', intellectuals, counter-revolutionaries, rightists, tyrants, the rich and landlords. As in a war, millions might die, but these deaths would be justified by the end, as in the defeat of Hitler in World War II. To the ruling Marxists, the goal of a communist utopia was enough to justify all the deaths. The obnoxious communist historian Eric Hobsbawm concurred with the idea that the ends justify the means. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Oct 17 6.48pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

That Communism has a body count in no way delegitmises it in comparison to any other ideologies which have been attempted.

Rudolp Rommel explains it well:
"Of all religions, secular and otherwise, Marxism is s by far the bloodiest – bloodier than the Catholic Inquisition, the various Catholic crusades, and the Thirty Years War between Catholics and Protestants. In practice, Marxism has meant bloody terrorism, deadly purges, lethal prison camps and murderous forced labour, fatal deportations, man-made famines, extra-judicial executions and fraudulent show trials, outright mass murder and genocide." He writes that in practice the Marxists saw the construction of their utopia as "a war on poverty, exploitation, imperialism and inequality – and, as in a real war, non-combatants would get caught in the battle. There would be necessary enemy casualties: the clergy, bourgeoisie, capitalists, 'wreckers', intellectuals, counter-revolutionaries, rightists, tyrants, the rich and landlords. As in a war, millions might die, but these deaths would be justified by the end, as in the defeat of Hitler in World War II. To the ruling Marxists, the goal of a communist utopia was enough to justify all the deaths.
The obnoxious communist historian Eric Hobsbawm concurred with the idea that the ends justify the means.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 02 Oct 17 6.50pm
Originally posted by serial thriller I don't get it. So Labour should've spent less in expectation of a major financial meltdown, so they could come up with £500 bill without sending us in to mountains of debt? Even surplus countries like Germany were ruined by the crash, and they'd been imposing self-inflicted austerity before 2008. Where should Labour not have spent £500 bill to free up a surplus of that size, and why the hell should our taxes have gone to a reserve security for bankers throwing loans out like there was no tomorrow? Surely blame them for completely deregulating what was a toxic industry instead? Economic life cycles last on average 7-10 years. Nobody can eliminate boom and bust, no matter how much their voice booms in parliament in more prosperous times. Unfortunately this will always be so. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 02 Oct 17 6.50pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

I don't get it. So Labour should've spent less in expectation of a major financial meltdown, so they could come up with £500 bill without sending us in to mountains of debt?

Surely blame them for completely deregulating what was a toxic industry instead?

Economic life cycles last on average 7-10 years. Nobody can eliminate boom and bust, no matter how much their voice booms in parliament in more prosperous times.

Unfortunately this will always be so.

COYP

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