John Le Carre bemoans resurgence of fascist sentim

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John Le Carre bemoans resurgence of fascist sentim

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 15 Sep 17 2.59pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Hasn't that been down to anti fascists fighting them?look at the videos I linked to where I went through the reasonable mission statement. However, I just like the mission statement. I'm well aware that under this banner all manner of people are attracted. This is why I shy away from groups. In fact all of the things in that statement are as close to what the edl actually stand for as the chance of the Tories introducing mandatory closed shops in all workplaces is. Edited by nickgusset (15 Sep 2017 3.12pm)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 15 Sep 17 2.59pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Hasn't that been down to anti fascists fighting them?look at the videos I linked to where I went through the reasonable mission statement.

However, I just like the mission statement. I'm well aware that under this banner all manner of people are attracted.

This is why I shy away from groups.

In fact all of the things in that statement are as close to what the edl actually stand for as the chance of the Tories introducing mandatory closed shops in all workplaces is.

Edited by nickgusset (15 Sep 2017 3.12pm)

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Stirlingsays 15 Sep 17 3.11pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I shall. Some DIY to get done for the moment. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Sep 17 3.11pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I shall.

Some DIY to get done for the moment.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 15 Sep 17 3.12pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I shall. Some DIY to get done for the moment. You looking at that video of me again?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 15 Sep 17 3.12pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I shall.

Some DIY to get done for the moment.

You looking at that video of me again?

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hedgehog50 Croydon 15 Sep 17 3.19pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Well I suspect Religion might have them beat as well, if you go head of population. Estimates of 100 million since 1917, even religion and the risible mention of diseases would have to go some to beat that. The serious point is that many on the left still cling to many of the economic and social theories that communism preaches. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 15 Sep 17 3.19pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well I suspect Religion might have them beat as well, if you go head of population.

Estimates of 100 million since 1917, even religion and the risible mention of diseases would have to go some to beat that. The serious point is that many on the left still cling to many of the economic and social theories that communism preaches.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Sep 17 3.20pm
Originally posted by nickgusset All 231 of them. The Hog is using the same logic in retaliation to Left wing paranoia about 'fascists'. It baffles me how you can see the reverse but not the absurdity of your own neurosis.
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Hrolf The Ganger

15 Sep 17 3.20pm

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Originally posted by nickgusset

All 231 of them.

The Hog is using the same logic in retaliation to Left wing paranoia about 'fascists'.
It baffles me how you can see the reverse but not the absurdity of your own neurosis.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Sep 17 3.24pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Hasn't that been down to anti fascists fighting them? However, I just like the mission statement. I'm well aware that under this banner all manner of people are attracted. This is why I shy away from groups. And when they've been fighting with the police? Seems a lot of members of the EDL seem to get arrested for violence at marches. Just because your fighting with anti-fascist demonstrators, doesn't mean your vindicated. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Sep 17 3.24pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Hasn't that been down to anti fascists fighting them?

However, I just like the mission statement. I'm well aware that under this banner all manner of people are attracted.

This is why I shy away from groups.

And when they've been fighting with the police? Seems a lot of members of the EDL seem to get arrested for violence at marches.

Just because your fighting with anti-fascist demonstrators, doesn't mean your vindicated.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 15 Sep 17 4.00pm
Originally posted by nickgusset You looking at that video of me again? Oooh Ducky! 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Sep 17 4.00pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

You looking at that video of me again?

Oooh Ducky!

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 15 Sep 17 4.08pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 And when they've been fighting with the police? Seems a lot of members of the EDL seem to get arrested for violence at marches. Just because your fighting with anti-fascist demonstrators, doesn't mean your vindicated. In most instances anyone fighting with the Police in my book is an arsehole. They are legitimately doing their job. We have to recognise that only an elected body has the legitimacy to create an enforcing body and hence the regulated use of force. If you need to defend yourself that's another situation...if a group of protesters are attacking you for example but of course as soon as you become the one who initiates force your argument is considerably weakened and rightly so. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Sep 2017 4.12pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Sep 17 4.08pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

And when they've been fighting with the police? Seems a lot of members of the EDL seem to get arrested for violence at marches.

Just because your fighting with anti-fascist demonstrators, doesn't mean your vindicated.

In most instances anyone fighting with the Police in my book is an arsehole. They are legitimately doing their job. We have to recognise that only an elected body has the legitimacy to create an enforcing body and hence the regulated use of force.

If you need to defend yourself that's another situation...if a group of protesters are attacking you for example but of course as soon as you become the one who initiates force your argument is considerably weakened and rightly so.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Sep 2017 4.12pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 15 Sep 17 4.11pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 And when they've been fighting with the police? Seems a lot of members of the EDL seem to get arrested for violence at marches. Just because your fighting with anti-fascist demonstrators, doesn't mean your vindicated. But I can't find anything wrong with their mission statement. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Sep 17 4.11pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

And when they've been fighting with the police? Seems a lot of members of the EDL seem to get arrested for violence at marches.

Just because your fighting with anti-fascist demonstrators, doesn't mean your vindicated.

But I can't find anything wrong with their mission statement.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 15 Sep 17 4.14pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays But I can't find anything wrong with their mission statement. Even the anyone not English is second class overtones within?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 15 Sep 17 4.14pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

But I can't find anything wrong with their mission statement.

Even the anyone not English is second class overtones within?

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Stirlingsays 15 Sep 17 4.56pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Even the anyone not English is second class overtones within? You defend Corbyn against misrepresentations and then just invent whatever for things you don't like. You need to reflect on that Nick. If you don't have allegiance to Britain, yet have a British passport then I have criticism for that....there are some exceptions but mostly that holds true for me. Similarly if you are English, yet disavow being English. Those who take the benefits yet sh1t the bed don't deserve the bed. If you are foreign and over here there are plenty of situations where that is fine and welcome...tourists, married, the old work permits and so on. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Sep 2017 5.02pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Sep 17 4.56pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Even the anyone not English is second class overtones within?

You defend Corbyn against misrepresentations and then just invent whatever for things you don't like. You need to reflect on that Nick.

If you don't have allegiance to Britain, yet have a British passport then I have criticism for that....there are some exceptions but mostly that holds true for me.

Similarly if you are English, yet disavow being English. Those who take the benefits yet sh1t the bed don't deserve the bed.

If you are foreign and over here there are plenty of situations where that is fine and welcome...tourists, married, the old work permits and so on.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Sep 2017 5.02pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Sep 17 5.37pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 I think its reasonable to regard Islamist Britain and a EDL Britain as equally abhorrent concepts. Neither represent the ideals of a free Democratic society, which accepts alternative view. Political groups that don't have political representation or engagement in the democratic party, but actively claim to represent the people by protest and action of its members are almost always Marxist or Fascist based groups. Especially when you get down to its core members. How anyone can have issue with Antifa or the ANL and have any regard for the EDL, they are effectively the same thing really. The ANL was exploited by the SWP exactly in the same way the Far Right does with groups like the EDL. I think you are essentially correct. The difference is that far Right groups see themselves as protecting their country against 'foreign' influence, whereas Antifa and such like, promote multi-culture and favour the rights of minorities over the majority. These are all debatable viewpoints of course. In my view, it is often difficult to see how the far Left represent the national interest or anyone's other than themselves and equally difficult to ignore the fact that the far Right also uses minority issues for political ends. The question is, do certain minorities represent a negative influence on our society? I'd say they do which lends power to the far Right position and prompts a defensive and disproportionate response from the far Left and the self interested. They are both alike in their extremism, but what matters is what is true and what isn't. What is really in the interests of our country and what is not.
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Hrolf The Ganger

15 Sep 17 5.37pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I think its reasonable to regard Islamist Britain and a EDL Britain as equally abhorrent concepts. Neither represent the ideals of a free Democratic society, which accepts alternative view.

Political groups that don't have political representation or engagement in the democratic party, but actively claim to represent the people by protest and action of its members are almost always Marxist or Fascist based groups. Especially when you get down to its core members.

How anyone can have issue with Antifa or the ANL and have any regard for the EDL, they are effectively the same thing really. The ANL was exploited by the SWP exactly in the same way the Far Right does with groups like the EDL.

I think you are essentially correct. The difference is that far Right groups see themselves as protecting their country against 'foreign' influence, whereas Antifa and such like, promote multi-culture and favour the rights of minorities over the majority. These are all debatable viewpoints of course. In my view, it is often difficult to see how the far Left represent the national interest or anyone's other than themselves and equally difficult to ignore the fact that the far Right also uses minority issues for political ends.

The question is, do certain minorities represent a negative influence on our society? I'd say they do which lends power to the far Right position and prompts a defensive and disproportionate response from the far Left and the self interested. They are both alike in their extremism, but what matters is what is true and what isn't. What is really in the interests of our country and what is not.

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