The left and Jewish people

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The left and Jewish people

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Hrolf The Ganger 02 May 16 1.34pm
Originally posted by corkery People hate Israel because of the way they treat Palestinians. If they were any other religion, people would still hate them. That's a fair point. The problem is that many who are pro Israel deflect criticism by crying Anti Semitism. It could also be argued that some genuine Anti Semites use the Israeli situation as an excuse to bash Jews. Personally I feel that that there is a lot more of the former than the latter but then I don't have an axe to grind. I suspect that a lot of so called Anti Semitism on the Left comes from defenders of Islam. Islam can do no wrong apparently. That said, Israel's treatment of Palestinians is hard to defend. Unfortunately for them, The Arab world is not exactly flavour of the month in the West.
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Hrolf The Ganger

02 May 16 1.34pm

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Originally posted by corkery

People hate Israel because of the way they treat Palestinians. If they were any other religion, people would still hate them.

That's a fair point.

The problem is that many who are pro Israel deflect criticism by crying Anti Semitism. It could also be argued that some genuine Anti Semites use the Israeli situation as an excuse to bash Jews.

Personally I feel that that there is a lot more of the former than the latter but then I don't have an axe to grind.

I suspect that a lot of so called Anti Semitism on the Left comes from defenders of Islam. Islam can do no wrong apparently.
That said, Israel's treatment of Palestinians is hard to defend. Unfortunately for them, The Arab world is not exactly flavour of the month in the West.

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matt_himself Matataland 02 May 16 8.43pm
Originally posted by nickgusset They're over exaggerating and implying that anti semetism is endemic within labour, which it clearly isn't. Clearly it's not endemic, is it Gusset? [Link] "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 02 May 16 8.43pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

They're over exaggerating and implying that anti semetism is endemic within labour, which it clearly isn't.

Clearly it's not endemic, is it Gusset?

[Link]

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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fed up eagle Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 02 May 16 8.50pm
Three councillors suspended today! Not one, not two but THREE!! Welcome to the Jew hating Labour party! In the pocket of Islamic extremists! This is the main opposition to the government! What a s*** choice of political parties to choose from! Edited by fed up eagle (02 May 2016 8.53pm)
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fed up eagle

Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 02 May 16 8.50pm

Three councillors suspended today! Not one, not two but THREE!!

Welcome to the Jew hating Labour party! In the pocket of Islamic extremists! This is the main opposition to the government! What a s*** choice of political parties to choose from!

Edited by fed up eagle (02 May 2016 8.53pm)

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Hrolf The Ganger 02 May 16 10.43pm
To e fair, this is not just a problem for Labour it is a problem for the British way of life. It wont be long before the imported politics of hate will be endemic everywhere in this country. Multi Culture? Melting pot? Try battle ground. It will make the sectarianism of the Irish look like a picnic.
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Hrolf The Ganger

02 May 16 10.43pm

To e fair, this is not just a problem for Labour it is a problem for the British way of life.
It wont be long before the imported politics of hate will be endemic everywhere in this country.

Multi Culture? Melting pot? Try battle ground.
It will make the sectarianism of the Irish look like a picnic.

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matt_himself Matataland 03 May 16 5.42am
Apparently, the party has suspended 50 people for making racist and anti semitic actions: [Link] Firstly, this is what you get when you allow a bunch of extremist lunatics to 'affiliate' with your organisation. Secondly, look at the video half way down that page. Corbyn is speaking at a demo where a man is flying a red flag containing the hammer and sickle, the symbol of Stalin and his mass murder. Can you imagine the outrage if Nigel Farage spoke at a rally and some ultra right wing arse holes turned up with flags with swatikas on them? Why does Corbyn get off so easily and why isn't this double standard challenged by Labour? Labour is a disgusting mess, naval looking and refusing to accept its problems. May it hang it's head in shame and be unelectable for decades. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 03 May 16 5.42am

Apparently, the party has suspended 50 people for making racist and anti semitic actions:

[Link]

Firstly, this is what you get when you allow a bunch of extremist lunatics to 'affiliate' with your organisation.

Secondly, look at the video half way down that page. Corbyn is speaking at a demo where a man is flying a red flag containing the hammer and sickle, the symbol of Stalin and his mass murder. Can you imagine the outrage if Nigel Farage spoke at a rally and some ultra right wing arse holes turned up with flags with swatikas on them? Why does Corbyn get off so easily and why isn't this double standard challenged by Labour?

Labour is a disgusting mess, naval looking and refusing to accept its problems. May it hang it's head in shame and be unelectable for decades.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 03 May 16 7.58am
I find it amusing that most of the champagne socialists I meet down here in Hove are unwittingly racist themselves because they only associate racism with the colour of one's skin. They are the first to leap at any questioning on immigration as racist, claim they are not racist by having one or two black or Muslim acquaintances (not friends, mind, in the true sense of the word) and dismiss any celebration of St George's Day as some fringe meeting of the BNP. The look on one of my Leftie colleague's face was priceless when he quite proudly announced that his wife wasn't going to New York as she hates Americans. He was genuinely shocked when I asked him what it was like living with a racist. The anti-semitism thing is similar. Because the Israelis are the "wrong" colour, they're seen as the evil ones. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 03 May 16 7.58am

I find it amusing that most of the champagne socialists I meet down here in Hove are unwittingly racist themselves because they only associate racism with the colour of one's skin. They are the first to leap at any questioning on immigration as racist, claim they are not racist by having one or two black or Muslim acquaintances (not friends, mind, in the true sense of the word) and dismiss any celebration of St George's Day as some fringe meeting of the BNP.

The look on one of my Leftie colleague's face was priceless when he quite proudly announced that his wife wasn't going to New York as she hates Americans. He was genuinely shocked when I asked him what it was like living with a racist.

The anti-semitism thing is similar. Because the Israelis are the "wrong" colour, they're seen as the evil ones.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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npn Crowborough 03 May 16 7.59am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger That's a fair point. The problem is that many who are pro Israel deflect criticism by crying Anti Semitism. It could also be argued that some genuine Anti Semites use the Israeli situation as an excuse to bash Jews. Personally I feel that that there is a lot more of the former than the latter but then I don't have an axe to grind. I suspect that a lot of so called Antisemitism on the Left comes from defenders of Islam. Islam can do no wrong apparently. That said, Israel's treatment of Palestinians is hard to defend. Unfortunately for them, The Arab world is not exactly flavour of the month in the West. That's very true, and also very true of a large percentage of the other "ism" claimers (it's racist, sexist, any-other-ist you can name). I watched that Sunday morning debate program on TV (can't remember what it was called) and they had both sides of the debate present. A rabbi was claiming a clear case of antisemitism because he had been abused on Twitter following his last TV appearance when he defended Israel and its actions. It seems many cannot separate the criticism of a state (that happens to be predominately Jewish) with criticism of Jewish people. There was an interesting chap on from an organisation called something like "Jews for the boycotting of Israeli goods" - he almost made the Jewish peoples' heads explode pointing out that he, as a British born and bred Jew, would have more rights in Israel despite never having been there, than an average Palestinian who had lived there all his life.
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npn

Crowborough 03 May 16 7.59am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That's a fair point.

The problem is that many who are pro Israel deflect criticism by crying Anti Semitism. It could also be argued that some genuine Anti Semites use the Israeli situation as an excuse to bash Jews.

Personally I feel that that there is a lot more of the former than the latter but then I don't have an axe to grind.

I suspect that a lot of so called Antisemitism on the Left comes from defenders of Islam. Islam can do no wrong apparently.
That said, Israel's treatment of Palestinians is hard to defend. Unfortunately for them, The Arab world is not exactly flavour of the month in the West.

That's very true, and also very true of a large percentage of the other "ism" claimers (it's racist, sexist, any-other-ist you can name).

I watched that Sunday morning debate program on TV (can't remember what it was called) and they had both sides of the debate present. A rabbi was claiming a clear case of antisemitism because he had been abused on Twitter following his last TV appearance when he defended Israel and its actions. It seems many cannot separate the criticism of a state (that happens to be predominately Jewish) with criticism of Jewish people. There was an interesting chap on from an organisation called something like "Jews for the boycotting of Israeli goods" - he almost made the Jewish peoples' heads explode pointing out that he, as a British born and bred Jew, would have more rights in Israel despite never having been there, than an average Palestinian who had lived there all his life.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 May 16 10.14am
Originally posted by matt_himself Apparently, the party has suspended 50 people for making racist and anti semitic actions: [Link] Firstly, this is what you get when you allow a bunch of extremist lunatics to 'affiliate' with your organisation. Secondly, look at the video half way down that page. Corbyn is speaking at a demo where a man is flying a red flag containing the hammer and sickle, the symbol of Stalin and his mass murder. Can you imagine the outrage if Nigel Farage spoke at a rally and some ultra right wing arse holes turned up with flags with swatikas on them? Why does Corbyn get off so easily and why isn't this double standard challenged by Labour? Labour is a disgusting mess, naval looking and refusing to accept its problems. May it hang it's head in shame and be unelectable for decades. The Hammer and Sickle was the symbol of the Russian Communist movement, prior to the revolution - Not specifically that of Stalin. Similar to how the British Union flag isn't the flag of the Amritsar Massacre. It still appears on a number of ex-Soviet state flag although some former states have outlawed it. Its also a symbol used by a number of other countries. Whilst I do kind of agree, that its a morons flag, as to me its synonymous with the cruelty, Oppression and brutality of the Soviet Union, it isn't specific to the regime of Stalin. However like the Swastika of Nazi Germany, it represents a sinister and dangerous idealism that sees oppression and enslavement as acceptable policy (even if the symbol doesn't represent that). Personally I prefer the Red flag, without symbols. But it does seem a touch hypocritical that its still seen as acceptable left wing behaviour to wave that flag (especially as it isn't the flag of any UK communist parties). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 03 May 16 10.14am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Apparently, the party has suspended 50 people for making racist and anti semitic actions:

[Link]

Firstly, this is what you get when you allow a bunch of extremist lunatics to 'affiliate' with your organisation.

Secondly, look at the video half way down that page. Corbyn is speaking at a demo where a man is flying a red flag containing the hammer and sickle, the symbol of Stalin and his mass murder. Can you imagine the outrage if Nigel Farage spoke at a rally and some ultra right wing arse holes turned up with flags with swatikas on them? Why does Corbyn get off so easily and why isn't this double standard challenged by Labour?

Labour is a disgusting mess, naval looking and refusing to accept its problems. May it hang it's head in shame and be unelectable for decades.

The Hammer and Sickle was the symbol of the Russian Communist movement, prior to the revolution - Not specifically that of Stalin. Similar to how the British Union flag isn't the flag of the Amritsar Massacre.

It still appears on a number of ex-Soviet state flag although some former states have outlawed it. Its also a symbol used by a number of other countries.

Whilst I do kind of agree, that its a morons flag, as to me its synonymous with the cruelty, Oppression and brutality of the Soviet Union, it isn't specific to the regime of Stalin.

However like the Swastika of Nazi Germany, it represents a sinister and dangerous idealism that sees oppression and enslavement as acceptable policy (even if the symbol doesn't represent that). Personally I prefer the Red flag, without symbols. But it does seem a touch hypocritical that its still seen as acceptable left wing behaviour to wave that flag (especially as it isn't the flag of any UK communist parties).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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johnfirewall 03 May 16 10.19am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Whilst I do kind of agree, that its a morons flag, as to me its synonymous with the cruelty, Oppression and brutality of the Soviet Union, it isn't specific to the regime of Stalin. I saw those morons in Trafalgar Square at the weekend. For a group representing the workers there appeared barely a days graft between them.
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johnfirewall

03 May 16 10.19am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Whilst I do kind of agree, that its a morons flag, as to me its synonymous with the cruelty, Oppression and brutality of the Soviet Union, it isn't specific to the regime of Stalin.

I saw those morons in Trafalgar Square at the weekend. For a group representing the workers there appeared barely a days graft between them.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 May 16 10.19am
Originally posted by mezzer I find it amusing that most of the champagne socialists I meet down here in Hove are unwittingly racist themselves because they only associate racism with the colour of one's skin. They are the first to leap at any questioning on immigration as racist, claim they are not racist by having one or two black or Muslim acquaintances (not friends, mind, in the true sense of the word) and dismiss any celebration of St George's Day as some fringe meeting of the BNP. The look on one of my Leftie colleague's face was priceless when he quite proudly announced that his wife wasn't going to New York as she hates Americans. He was genuinely shocked when I asked him what it was like living with a racist. The anti-semitism thing is similar. Because the Israelis are the "wrong" colour, they're seen as the evil ones. Technically xenophobe, Americans aren't a racial group or ethnicity. Its a moot point, because its just as stupid as racism. To hate someone because their American is a stupid as hating someone for being black, or female, or because they live in a different postcode, or have different coloured eyes. Technically however Jewish is a race, as the general requirement is that you are born of a Jewish mother (Islam has some similarities in terms of being envisioned more as a race than a religion, in some circles). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 03 May 16 10.19am

Originally posted by mezzer

The anti-semitism thing is similar. Because the Israelis are the "wrong" colour, they're seen as the evil ones.

Technically xenophobe, Americans aren't a racial group or ethnicity. Its a moot point, because its just as stupid as racism. To hate someone because their American is a stupid as hating someone for being black, or female, or because they live in a different postcode, or have different coloured eyes.

Technically however Jewish is a race, as the general requirement is that you are born of a Jewish mother (Islam has some similarities in terms of being envisioned more as a race than a religion, in some circles).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 03 May 16 10.37am
I think Labour's problem is that by backing what is generally a noble position. i.e. the right to self determination for the Palestinians (my personal belief is that all people should have a homeland though that does often mean compromise), they have attracted the more extreme elements. Then you have Ken who clearly has an issue with the Jews as he his quite specific with his comments and has previous form. As for Abbott over the last few days, enough said. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 03 May 16 10.37am

I think Labour's problem is that by backing what is generally a noble position. i.e. the right to self determination for the Palestinians (my personal belief is that all people should have a homeland though that does often mean compromise), they have attracted the more extreme elements.

Then you have Ken who clearly has an issue with the Jews as he his quite specific with his comments and has previous form. As for Abbott over the last few days, enough said.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Hrolf The Ganger 03 May 16 1.27pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Technically xenophobe, Americans aren't a racial group or ethnicity. Its a moot point, because its just as stupid as racism. To hate someone because their American is a stupid as hating someone for being black, or female, or because they live in a different postcode, or have different coloured eyes. Technically however Jewish is a race, as the general requirement is that you are born of a Jewish mother (Islam has some similarities in terms of being envisioned more as a race than a religion, in some circles). You mean some judge made a totally unscientific decision to protect Jews from harm. Jews cannot be and never will be a race by any scientific definition worth it's salt. As I have said many times. According to science, there is only one race, the Human Race. All else is just politics. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (03 May 2016 1.28pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

03 May 16 1.27pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Technically however Jewish is a race, as the general requirement is that you are born of a Jewish mother (Islam has some similarities in terms of being envisioned more as a race than a religion, in some circles).

You mean some judge made a totally unscientific decision to protect Jews from harm. Jews cannot be and never will be a race by any scientific definition worth it's salt.
As I have said many times. According to science, there is only one race, the Human Race. All else is just politics.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (03 May 2016 1.28pm)

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