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General Election 2017

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 11.56am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

So what is their policy. All they seem to say is Labour "believes in fair rules and reasonable management of migration" and will not make "false promises" on numbers.
Labour has never made any real attempt to control immigration and it never will.

Where do they say unlimited immigration?

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 11.59am

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but isn't this more of an administrative f*ck up than a political one?

After all, Whitehall gets its budget irrespective of who's in power so isn't this a stinging indictment of senior management in the civil service rather than anyone else?

The real lol aspect, of course, is that the Tories have put the squeeze on IT contractors so much through IR35 regulations that they're going to struggle to take on the very people (the only people) who can unravel this mess for them.

Isn't the security of medical / nhs computer systems part of Jeremy Hunts remit as health secretary? Therefore it is political. It's happened on his watch. It's more than likely happened because the Tories were trying to save a few quid.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 May 17 12.09pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Where do they say unlimited immigration?

They wouldn't say that, would they.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 13 May 17 12.11pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Isn't the security of medical / nhs computer systems part of Jeremy Hunts remit as health secretary? Therefore it is political. It's happened on his watch. It's more than likely happened because the Tories were trying to save a few quid.

Of course the first reaction is to blame the politicians in charge of the affected government department but is it necessarily their fault that the heads of IT in a particular department are useless? Don't forget, the civil service is (supposedly) Independent'of government and makes appointments like this without reference to the minister - politicians don't normally even appoint the Permanent Secretary. The tradition is that the politicians are there to take all the credit but also to take the rap if things f*ck up. Hunt may be a grade A w@nker but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have even been aware of the imminent obsolescence of computer operating systems.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 12.12pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

They wouldn't say that, would they.

So there is no evidence. Only that they've said Labour
believes in fair rules and reasonable management of migration" and will not make "false promises" on numbers.

Reasonable management is the opposite of unmanaged.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 12.14pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Of course the first reaction is to blame the politicians in charge of the affected government department but is it necessarily their fault that the heads of IT in a particular department are useless? Don't forget, the civil service is (supposedly) Independent'of government and makes appointments like this without reference to the minister - politicians don't normally even appoint the Permanent Secretary. The tradition is that the politicians are there to take all the credit but also to take the rap if things f*ck up. Hunt may be a grade A w@nker but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have even been aware of the imminent obsolescence of computer operating systems.

I seem to remember a lot of hoo haa about procurement of IT systems in the nhs. Hunt must have known as it was so high profile

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 May 17 12.25pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

So there is no evidence. Only that they've said Labour
believes in fair rules and reasonable management of migration" and will not make "false promises" on numbers.

Reasonable management is the opposite of unmanaged.

The electorate will read what they have said (and what they have said and done in the past) and draw the obvious conclusions and vote accordingly.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 13 May 17 12.27pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

Keep on believing that, if you wish.

The facts are that the only weapon Labour has in this weapon is resorting to sectarian populism and then using pie-in-the-sky policies to try and discredit the Tories.

For example, it is very easy to say 'energy companies should be nationalised because of the prices they charge customers'. The reality is that a renationalised energy sector would create a monopoly and there would not be investment on the scale of what is happening now or planned for the future, for example Bradwell B or upgrades to the distribution grid. A renationalised energy sector would be a legal nightmare to create and with the civil service bound up for the next five years with Brexit, it is hard to see how Labour could get just one small part of their manifesto completed, not to mention the other items that would also suck bureaucrats and money.

Also, these plans aren't costed. Nothing I have seen gives a costing and it appears that Labour has used reversing future lowering of capital gains tax to many for several projects, meaning that hey have already committed a sum for their manifesto policies about five times over. The planned riaiskng of corporation tax will only encourage companies to find 'tax efficient' ways to hide profits offshore, and despite all the tough talk of 'no swertheart deals' with corporations he corporations and heir tax advisers are a heck of a lot smarter than a bunch of Momentum droogs and will easily find loopholes in the system and then exploit other loopholes when and if government cottons on to the first loopholes.

The Labour manifesto is to me a transparent work of populism, written in he same vein as UKIP's manifesto of banning the burqa and introducing medical checks for FGM. Corbyn and McDonnell know they won't win, they are losing ground in Wales having lost Scotland, and have penned this regressive tome in order to give hemselves long enough in charge of Labour to enact their legacy, amending Labours manifesto so that left leaning candidates are in power for perpetuity.

And before some smart arse asks, I do disagree with their policies. Nationalisation was a disaster in this country and nothing suggests to me that Labour could make it a success his time around, inward investment would cease completely, corporations would simply leave Britain and Labour would hand power disproportionately to unions, ensuring that we would become a strike bound country.

This I totally with you on as it was a mess and cost the government loads of money and you only have to look back at British Leyland what a fiasco that was.

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 13 May 17 12.32pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

I seem to remember a lot of hoo haa about procurement of IT systems in the nhs. Hunt must have known as it was so high profile

Don't get me wrong - his department, therefore he must take executive responsibility. I have no doubt that budget cuts prevented the necessary upgrades being made. But I'm also suggesting that the IT department, out of their entire budget, failed to prioritise this very necessary upgrade.

IT systems across government are dogsh*t. HMRC are still using legacy systems from the days of Customs & Excise and the Inland Revenue. There's virtually no cross-department integration anywhere. This has been an issue since Blair and Brown's time and no government, of any hue, has had the foresight or bravery to commit significant resources to it. Couple this to the fact that government IT employees are about the worst paid in the industry and that morale in the civil service is at an all time low and there you have the recipe for disaster. Successive governments have ignored this in favour of other, more "popular" projects for donkeys' years and now we're starting to see the results of that negligence.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 12.32pm

Originally posted by susmik

This I totally with you on as it was a mess and cost the government loads of money and you only have to look back at British Leyland what a fiasco that was.

1. The allegro. If you make s*** cars it doesn't help.
2. Yes some unions did sometimes go over the top. What's to say it would happen now. Many unions praise the German relationship between unions and management. Productivity and efficiency are good there. We should aim for this rather than allowing workers rights to be further abolished.

 

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 13 May 17 12.45pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by susmik

This I totally with you on as it was a mess and cost the government loads of money and you only have to look back at British Leyland what a fiasco that was.

It destroyed the manufacturing industry in his country. The idiots view is that 'nationalisation equals profits going to government'. What the idiot doesn't comprehend is that state owned monopolies produce pisspoor management, next to zero innovation, over powered unions, poor products and next to zero investment.

Anyone thinking of voting Labour for their nationalisation policies, I urge you read Michael Edwardes book 'Back from the Brink'. It is about Edwardes' time as CEO of British Leyland. It will bring tears to your eyes.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 May 17 12.56pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

1. The allegro. If you make s*** cars it doesn't help.
2. Yes some unions did sometimes go over the top. What's to say it would happen now. Many unions praise the German relationship between unions and management. Productivity and efficiency are good there. We should aim for this rather than allowing workers rights to be further abolished.

The Unions used to see the nationalised industries as something of a soft touch. They knew that the state (ie: the taxpayer) was always there to bung yet more money in to satisfy ever increasing wage demands. Similar tactics did not work with the private sector as ultimately the companies could go bankrupt (although of course the more communist leaning union leaders didn't mind that either, as losing their members' jobs was a small price to pay for furthering their revolutionary aims).

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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