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General Election 2017

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Mr_Gristle Flag In the land of Whelk Eaters 13 May 17 9.04am Send a Private Message to Mr_Gristle Add Mr_Gristle as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Seems the only arguments against the lefts (bar one or two exceptions) points are either 'Corbyn is unelectable' type stuff without basis, it's unworkable (without finding out whether this is true or not) or personal attacks.

Edited by nickgusset (13 May 2017 12.40am)

A fair reflection of what's going on in the national debate, not just the HOL.

 


Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 May 17 10.27am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Seems the only arguments against the lefts (bar one or two exceptions) points are either 'Corbyn is unelectable' type stuff without basis, it's unworkable (without finding out whether this is true or not) or personal attacks.

Edited by nickgusset (13 May 2017 12.40am)

Yeah, never get that with Farage or Trump or May or Le Pen do you.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 13 May 17 10.34am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

A fair reflection of what's going on in the national debate, not just the HOL.

Keep on believing that, if you wish.

The facts are that the only weapon Labour has in this weapon is resorting to sectarian populism and then using pie-in-the-sky policies to try and discredit the Tories.

For example, it is very easy to say 'energy companies should be nationalised because of the prices they charge customers'. The reality is that a renationalised energy sector would create a monopoly and there would not be investment on the scale of what is happening now or planned for the future, for example Bradwell B or upgrades to the distribution grid. A renationalised energy sector would be a legal nightmare to create and with the civil service bound up for the next five years with Brexit, it is hard to see how Labour could get just one small part of their manifesto completed, not to mention the other items that would also suck bureaucrats and money.

Also, these plans aren't costed. Nothing I have seen gives a costing and it appears that Labour has used reversing future lowering of capital gains tax to many for several projects, meaning that hey have already committed a sum for their manifesto policies about five times over. The planned riaiskng of corporation tax will only encourage companies to find 'tax efficient' ways to hide profits offshore, and despite all the tough talk of 'no swertheart deals' with corporations he corporations and heir tax advisers are a heck of a lot smarter than a bunch of Momentum droogs and will easily find loopholes in the system and then exploit other loopholes when and if government cottons on to the first loopholes.

The Labour manifesto is to me a transparent work of populism, written in he same vein as UKIP's manifesto of banning the burqa and introducing medical checks for FGM. Corbyn and McDonnell know they won't win, they are losing ground in Wales having lost Scotland, and have penned this regressive tome in order to give hemselves long enough in charge of Labour to enact their legacy, amending Labours manifesto so that left leaning candidates are in power for perpetuity.

And before some smart arse asks, I do disagree with their policies. Nationalisation was a disaster in this country and nothing suggests to me that Labour could make it a success his time around, inward investment would cease completely, corporations would simply leave Britain and Labour would hand power disproportionately to unions, ensuring that we would become a strike bound country.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 May 17 10.47am

The main benefit from nationalising the utilities would be that there would be just one organisation to blame and moan about when the constant price rises continue and the poor service goes on.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 10.48am

Doh!

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 May 17 10.51am

Originally posted by nickgusset

It's a subjective view though, others will see it differently.

One thing I've been wondering, I keep hearing that Labour would allow unlimited immigration. Is there any evidence for this? Didn't immigration numbers go up over the past few years?

I think we can all agree that the disastrous forays into different conflicts, particularly Iraq, are a driver behind the rise in immigration as people flee the likes of ISIS (who it could be argued only came into being because of the power vacuum and disorder following the war).

talking of Prescient, watch this from 4 minutes in. [Link]

He wasn't wrong was he?

Why wouldn't they? They constantly tell us how wonderful and beneficial immigration is and that there would be no health service and the economy would collapse without it. So surely they should encourage more of it. What reasons would they have to not encourage even more immigration? As for immigrations figures going up in the last few years, of course they have, we have been in the EU with an obligation to accept unlimited numbers of EU migrants.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 11.02am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Why wouldn't they? They constantly tell us how wonderful and beneficial immigration is and that there would be no health service and the economy would collapse without it. So surely they should encourage more of it. What reasons would they have to not encourage even more immigration? As for immigrations figures going up in the last few years, of course they have, we have been in the EU with an obligation to accept unlimited numbers of EU migrants.

No actual evidence then. Quelle Surprise.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 May 17 11.06am

Originally posted by nickgusset

No actual evidence then. Quelle Surprise.

Do you dispute the fact that Corbyn and most Labour politicians repeat the mantra that immigration is a great blessing? Do you think immigration is a great blessings? Do you think there are any problems with mass immigration?

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 11.11am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Do you dispute the fact that Corbyn and most Labour politicians repeat the mantra that immigration is a great blessing? Do you think immigration is a great blessings? Do you think there are any problems with mass immigration?

Where is your evidence that Labour would have uncontrolled immigration? Not what you say the mantra is. Just hard evidence.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 13 May 17 11.12am

Party saying you can't trust labour can't be trusted to do even the basics while advising people to do what they didn't.

From private eye in 2014

Rather more serious than getting figures muddled in an interview yet there will be less coverage.

Edited by nickgusset (13 May 2017 11.14am)

IMG_20170513_110907.jpg Attachment: IMG_20170513_110907.jpg (97.66Kb)

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 May 17 11.35am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Where is your evidence that Labour would have uncontrolled immigration? Not what you say the mantra is. Just hard evidence.

So what is their policy. All they seem to say is Labour "believes in fair rules and reasonable management of migration" and will not make "false promises" on numbers.
Labour has never made any real attempt to control immigration and it never will.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 13 May 17 11.46am Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Party saying you can't trust labour can't be trusted to do even the basics while advising people to do what they didn't.

From private eye in 2014

Rather more serious than getting figures muddled in an interview yet there will be less coverage.

Edited by nickgusset (13 May 2017 11.14am)

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but isn't this more of an administrative f*ck up than a political one?

After all, Whitehall gets its budget irrespective of who's in power so isn't this a stinging indictment of senior management in the civil service rather than anyone else?

The real lol aspect, of course, is that the Tories have put the squeeze on IT contractors so much through IR35 regulations that they're going to struggle to take on the very people (the only people) who can unravel this mess for them.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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