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 Stirlingsays  24 Dec 22 11.21pm |
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Originally posted by nead1
The issue is that he is correct; the Commission - as I strongly suspect you will know - is similar to the Civil Service; influential for sure, but don't make decisions per se.
The decision makers of the Commission is composed of 28 Commissioners, one from each Member State, and is appointed for a period of five years. This presenting of them as some kind of think tank really insults people's intelligence. The decisions come from them and the rest are simply mechanisms required to discuss and implement. As for WE, it sounds like that meeting would be far more enjoyable for yourself. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Dec 2022 11.26pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 25 Dec 22 6.15am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Clearly the EU structure has defects when assessed by the normal standards of Western democracy – but I would argue that the British parliament, with its unelected House of Lords and an unrepresentative House of Commons (in terms of the balance of political parties to votes cast), is even less democratic. What does control actually mean if people are not accountable as in the water example try getting any democratic access there. I can't recall anything being foistered on us by the EU either, they bent over backwards to accommodate us. The UK is going through tough times and they could get a lot worse, is about relevance, competence we seem to be detached from reality and isolated. I think we are in a terrible period of incompetent government, but I am not convinced that any other party would be an improvement. Your EU observations do ,however , show that in terms of reality detachment expertise you are up there with the best. I love your observation that the EU has defects by normal standards though. The thing you're overlooking is the EU Has never been or pretended to be democratic or representative. Each member state has the same representation and voting right irrespective of population or electoral system in that country. Each state, one commissioner COYP Edited by HKOwen (25 Dec 2022 6.18am)
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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 georgenorman 25 Dec 22 10.23am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Clearly the EU structure has defects when assessed by the normal standards of Western democracy – but I would argue that the British parliament, with its unelected House of Lords and an unrepresentative House of Commons (in terms of the balance of political parties to votes cast), is even less democratic. What does control actually mean if people are not accountable as in the water example try getting any democratic access there. I can't recall anything being foistered on us by the EU either, they bent over backwards to accommodate us. The UK is going through tough times and they could get a lot worse, is about relevance, competence we seem to be detached from reality and isolated. You would argue that elected people making laws is less democratic than unelected people making the laws - really!
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| steeleye20 Croydon 01 Jan 23 1.41pm |
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2022 is the year of 'bregret', the undeniable disaster of brexit is clearly getting home to the British public. 1 in 5 leavers regret. Record high support for re-joining the bloc. The politicians have spent 2022 in denial over brexit, few people can see any benefit in it, or any opportunities except to be worse off. The whole thing feels like a gross deception.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 01 Jan 23 1.50pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
2022 is the year of 'bregret', the undeniable disaster of brexit is clearly getting home to the British public. 1 in 5 leavers regret. Record high support for re-joining the bloc. The politicians have spent 2022 in denial over brexit, few people can see any benefit in it, or any opportunities except to be worse off. The whole thing feels like a gross deception. Not to worry Steeleye in 40 years time we will give you a referendum.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Jan 23 2.05pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's not misinformation. If it were only a think tank it wouldn't sodding exist. Honestly people like you exist as utter wind ups. . It is 100% misinformation. It isn’t a think tank either! Whoever suggested it is? The Commission has a specific role but it does not make law. The Council and Parliament do that and hold the power to dismiss the Commission if they are unsatisfied with its work.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| georgenorman 01 Jan 23 2.12pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It is 100% misinformation. It isn’t a think tank either! Whoever suggested it is? The Commission has a specific role but it does not make law. The Council and Parliament do that and hold the power to dismiss the Commission if they are unsatisfied with its work. It is you (as is often the case) peddling misinformation. The EU's own website states that: "The European Commission is the EU's politically independent executive arm. It is alone responsible for drawing up proposals for new European legislation".
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| steeleye20 Croydon 01 Jan 23 2.20pm |
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The brexit situation is actually more of a problem to Labour than the tories. Starmer appears trapped in a world of denial, caused mainly by his failure to oppose the tory govt. and in particular, Johnson's disastrous withdrawal agreement. To think labour MPs were actually whipped to support that deal, a complete disaster even Frost admits he just signed anything. All three parties spent 2022 down-playing and avoiding the consequences of brexit but the public are not stupid and now feeling the pain.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Jan 23 2.37pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Of course the unelected Commissioners make the laws. The EU Parliament can only vote against their proposals and in the case of budgetary and foreign policy matters, they can't even do that. MEPs can not propose laws, they have no mean of implementing any policies that they declare in their manifestos. The EU is simply undemocratic. The EU has to work differently to national Parliaments. The Commission work on issues determined under the Treaties. It proposes new laws to meet the objectives of the Treaties. The Parliament scrutinises in much the way the HoL does here. It cannot write a manifesto in the same that happens at home. That’s already determined in the Treaties. The Parliament can amend in many circumstances and can reject the Commission’s proposals. Ultimate mate oversight is vested in the Council.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| georgenorman 01 Jan 23 2.40pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The EU has to work differently to national Parliaments. The Commission work on issues determined under the Treaties. It proposes new laws to meet the objectives of the Treaties. The Parliament scrutinises in much the way the HoL does here. It cannot write a manifesto in the same that happens at home. That’s already determined in the Treaties. The Parliament can amend in many circumstances and can reject the Commission’s proposals. Ultimate mate oversight is vested in the Council. Couple of posts ago you said that the Commission does not make laws.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Jan 23 2.42pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
It is you (as is often the case) peddling misinformation. The EU's own website states that: "The European Commission is the EU's politically independent executive arm. It is alone responsible for drawing up proposals for new European legislation". Exactly! What part of “drawing up” puzzles you? Civil servants draw up. Politicians enact. They draw up as they are tasked to. They don’t enact law. That’s done by the Parliament and the Council and then in the national Parliaments.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| georgenorman 01 Jan 23 2.46pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Exactly! What part of “drawing up” puzzles you? Civil servants draw up. Politicians enact. They draw up as they are tasked to. They don’t enact law. That’s done by the Parliament and the Council and then in the national Parliaments. You are just playing with words. Our Civil Servants do not propose laws. The Commission decide which laws they are going to propose and all the EU parliament can do is reject them or propose amendments. In budgetary and foreign policy matters that cannot even do that.
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