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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Dec 22 3.36pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio PR gets you to the parliament in Italy or Ireland. constant Rainbow coalitions , a talking shop. Where nothing ever gets achieved. Its like sitting on a bus with a dozen drivers, all bickering over who has the keys. Currently UK government not keeping anyone happy, even their own supporters. Something needs to change. I also wouldn't call Ireland bickering, more brown envelope or a nudge and a wink. Italy has the Berlusconi problem, but he won't last forever. The UK doesn't need to copy either system. There are myriad systems of voting. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Dec 22 3.36pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

PR gets you to the parliament in Italy or Ireland. constant Rainbow coalitions , a talking shop. Where nothing ever gets achieved.

Its like sitting on a bus with a dozen drivers, all bickering over who has the keys.

Currently UK government not keeping anyone happy, even their own supporters. Something needs to change. I also wouldn't call Ireland bickering, more brown envelope or a nudge and a wink. Italy has the Berlusconi problem, but he won't last forever.

The UK doesn't need to copy either system. There are myriad systems of voting.

Red and Blue Army!

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steeleye20 Croydon 23 Dec 22 4.01pm
Originally posted by Badger11 1. As the article states unpicking Brexit from Ukraine and COVID is tricky. 2. The OBR does not have a good reputation on forecasting, they maybe independent but they have yet to agree that 1+1=2. 3. A bump in the road was always to be expected we are trying to turn our economy away from the EU to the rest of the world. It takes time for businesses to wake up to the opportunities and we are still negotiating deals with other countries. I think it is more realistic to look in about 5 years time. For 'bumps in the road' we should look no further than our exit from the EU waterways framework directive. Thank God we are back in control. The target for cleaning up our rivers to clean up their act by 2027, now extended to 2063. 2063 41 more years of living in s*e, a clear and obvious brexit opportunity.**
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steeleye20

Croydon 23 Dec 22 4.01pm

Originally posted by Badger11

1. As the article states unpicking Brexit from Ukraine and COVID is tricky.
2. The OBR does not have a good reputation on forecasting, they maybe independent but they have yet to agree that 1+1=2.
3. A bump in the road was always to be expected we are trying to turn our economy away from the EU to the rest of the world. It takes time for businesses to wake up to the opportunities and we are still negotiating deals with other countries.

I think it is more realistic to look in about 5 years time.

For 'bumps in the road' we should look no further than our exit from the EU waterways framework directive.

Thank God we are back in control.

The target for cleaning up our rivers to clean up their act by 2027, now extended to 2063.

2063

41 more years of living in s***e, a clear and obvious brexit opportunity.

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footythoughts Beckenham 24 Dec 22 2.44am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio PR gets you to the parliament in Italy or Ireland. constant Rainbow coalitions , a talking shop. Where nothing ever gets achieved. Its like sitting on a bus with a dozen drivers, all bickering over who has the keys. Maybe, but it also means that people vote for what they actually believe in, rather than strategically. It could result in a government or coalition I don't favour, but realistically I'd go for that over what we have now, as it would reflect society, and that in turn would impact how people next vote. I'm not interested in a limited and contrtived two options that sustain a system that f***s society and the working man up. Let the actual reality of the views of the public rule rather than Rishi Rich. How can it be any worse? Edited by footythoughts (24 Dec 2022 2.46am)
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footythoughts

Beckenham 24 Dec 22 2.44am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

PR gets you to the parliament in Italy or Ireland. constant Rainbow coalitions , a talking shop. Where nothing ever gets achieved.

Its like sitting on a bus with a dozen drivers, all bickering over who has the keys.

Maybe, but it also means that people vote for what they actually believe in, rather than strategically. It could result in a government or coalition I don't favour, but realistically I'd go for that over what we have now, as it would reflect society, and that in turn would impact how people next vote. I'm not interested in a limited and contrtived two options that sustain a system that f***s society and the working man up. Let the actual reality of the views of the public rule rather than Rishi Rich. How can it be any worse?

Edited by footythoughts (24 Dec 2022 2.46am)

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The Dolphin 24 Dec 22 8.36am
Originally posted by steeleye20 For 'bumps in the road' we should look no further than our exit from the EU waterways framework directive. Thank God we are back in control. The target for cleaning up our rivers to clean up their act by 2027, now extended to 2063. 2063 41 more years of living in s*e, a clear and obvious brexit opportunity.** I heard that too - an absolute joke, a disgrace and we should be ashamed.
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The Dolphin

24 Dec 22 8.36am

Originally posted by steeleye20

For 'bumps in the road' we should look no further than our exit from the EU waterways framework directive.

Thank God we are back in control.

The target for cleaning up our rivers to clean up their act by 2027, now extended to 2063.

2063

41 more years of living in s***e, a clear and obvious brexit opportunity.

I heard that too - an absolute joke, a disgrace and we should be ashamed.

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georgenorman 24 Dec 22 1.19pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 For 'bumps in the road' we should look no further than our exit from the EU waterways framework directive. Thank God we are back in control. The target for cleaning up our rivers to clean up their act by 2027, now extended to 2063. 2063 41 more years of living in s*e, a clear and obvious brexit opportunity.** The point is that, free of EU 'directives'/diktats made up by unelected EU Commissioners, we can make our own rules and regulations for rivers etc.
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georgenorman

24 Dec 22 1.19pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

For 'bumps in the road' we should look no further than our exit from the EU waterways framework directive.

Thank God we are back in control.

The target for cleaning up our rivers to clean up their act by 2027, now extended to 2063.

2063

41 more years of living in s***e, a clear and obvious brexit opportunity.

The point is that, free of EU 'directives'/diktats made up by unelected EU Commissioners, we can make our own rules and regulations for rivers etc.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Dec 22 6.37pm
Originally posted by georgenorman The point is that, free of EU 'directives'/diktats made up by unelected EU Commissioners, we can make our own rules and regulations for rivers etc. It’s this sort of misinformation that resulted in Brexit. The Commission and it’s Commissioners don’t make any law! It proposes ideas but the decisions are taken jointly by the Council and the Parliament. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 24 Dec 22 6.37pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

The point is that, free of EU 'directives'/diktats made up by unelected EU Commissioners, we can make our own rules and regulations for rivers etc.

It’s this sort of misinformation that resulted in Brexit.

The Commission and it’s Commissioners don’t make any law! It proposes ideas but the decisions are taken jointly by the Council and the Parliament.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 24 Dec 22 8.28pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It’s this sort of misinformation that resulted in Brexit. The Commission and it’s Commissioners don’t make any law! It proposes ideas but the decisions are taken jointly by the Council and the Parliament. It's not misinformation. If it were only a think tank it wouldn't sodding exist. Honestly people like you exist as utter wind ups. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Dec 22 8.28pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It’s this sort of misinformation that resulted in Brexit.

The Commission and it’s Commissioners don’t make any law! It proposes ideas but the decisions are taken jointly by the Council and the Parliament.

It's not misinformation.

If it were only a think tank it wouldn't sodding exist.

Honestly people like you exist as utter wind ups.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nead1 24 Dec 22 9.52pm
The issue is that he is correct; the Commission - as I strongly suspect you will know - is similar to the Civil Service; influential for sure, but don't make decisions per se. Anyway, in the interests of Peace and Love at this time of year, I hope you are able to respectively disagree with WE without any hint of rancour. Maybe if the two of you arranged a secret meet up in 23, you would find you both have a lot more in common than you imagine - Palace fans for a starter spanning many decades I suspect.
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nead1

24 Dec 22 9.52pm

The issue is that he is correct; the Commission - as I strongly suspect you will know - is similar to the Civil Service; influential for sure, but don't make decisions per se.
Anyway, in the interests of Peace and Love at this time of year, I hope you are able to respectively disagree with WE without any hint of rancour. Maybe if the two of you arranged a secret meet up in 23, you would find you both have a lot more in common than you imagine - Palace fans for a starter spanning many decades I suspect.

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georgenorman 24 Dec 22 10.24pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It’s this sort of misinformation that resulted in Brexit. The Commission and it’s Commissioners don’t make any law! It proposes ideas but the decisions are taken jointly by the Council and the Parliament. Of course the unelected Commissioners make the laws. The EU Parliament can only vote against their proposals and in the case of budgetary and foreign policy matters, they can't even do that. MEPs can not propose laws, they have no mean of implementing any policies that they declare in their manifestos. The EU is simply undemocratic.
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georgenorman

24 Dec 22 10.24pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It’s this sort of misinformation that resulted in Brexit.

The Commission and it’s Commissioners don’t make any law! It proposes ideas but the decisions are taken jointly by the Council and the Parliament.

Of course the unelected Commissioners make the laws. The EU Parliament can only vote against their proposals and in the case of budgetary and foreign policy matters, they can't even do that. MEPs can not propose laws, they have no mean of implementing any policies that they declare in their manifestos. The EU is simply undemocratic.

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georgenorman 24 Dec 22 10.27pm
Originally posted by nead1 The issue is that he is correct; the Commission - as I strongly suspect you will know - is similar to the Civil Service; influential for sure, but don't make decisions per se. Anyway, in the interests of Peace and Love at this time of year, I hope you are able to respectively disagree with WE without any hint of rancour. Maybe if the two of you arranged a secret meet up in 23, you would find you both have a lot more in common than you imagine - Palace fans for a starter spanning many decades I suspect. The EU Commission is nothing like our Civil Service. When did you last see a civil servant at the dispatch box proposing a new law?
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georgenorman

24 Dec 22 10.27pm

Originally posted by nead1

The EU Commission is nothing like our Civil Service. When did you last see a civil servant at the dispatch box proposing a new law?

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nead1 24 Dec 22 10.43pm
Staff working at the European Commission are part of the European Civil Service - around 32,000 in numbers. They include researchers, lawyers, translators etc. Sound a bit similar to the UK CS? Just for perspective, it is about the same size as the UK Home Office - not a statistic that was put about much in the Brexit debate I seem to recall with all the focus on so called European bureaucrats dictating everything imaginable in the UK - always was rubbish as we are fast finding out!
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nead1

24 Dec 22 10.43pm

Staff working at the European Commission are part of the European Civil Service - around 32,000 in numbers. They include researchers, lawyers, translators etc. Sound a bit similar to the UK CS?
Just for perspective, it is about the same size as the UK Home Office - not a statistic that was put about much in the Brexit debate I seem to recall with all the focus on so called European bureaucrats dictating everything imaginable in the UK - always was rubbish as we are fast finding out!

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steeleye20 Croydon 24 Dec 22 11.10pm
Clearly the EU structure has defects when assessed by the normal standards of Western democracy – but I would argue that the British parliament, with its unelected House of Lords and an unrepresentative House of Commons (in terms of the balance of political parties to votes cast), is even less democratic. What does control actually mean if people are not accountable as in the water example try getting any democratic access there. I can't recall anything being foistered on us by the EU either, they bent over backwards to accommodate us. The UK is going through tough times and they could get a lot worse, is about relevance, competence we seem to be detached from reality and isolated.
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steeleye20

Croydon 24 Dec 22 11.10pm

Clearly the EU structure has defects when assessed by the normal standards of Western democracy – but I would argue that the British parliament, with its unelected House of Lords and an unrepresentative House of Commons (in terms of the balance of political parties to votes cast), is even less democratic.

What does control actually mean if people are not accountable as in the water example try getting any democratic access there.

I can't recall anything being foistered on us by the EU either, they bent over backwards to accommodate us.

The UK is going through tough times and they could get a lot worse, is about relevance, competence we seem to be detached from reality and isolated.

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