This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
 Stirlingsays  17 Mar 22 6.37am |
   |
|---|---|
|
The difference in military loss estimates and progress vary considerably between UK/western and what's reported as Russian estimates. It is the same regarding the progress of the war and who does what attack. While I doubt the latter will probably ever be known for certain but at least the extent of military losses should become known over time....and of course the progress of the war won't be able to be hidden by propaganda. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Mar 2022 6.38am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
  |
| Stirlingsays 17 Mar 22 8.19am |
|
|---|---|
|
Here is the latest Tucker Carlson link. I literally can't believe how dim some politicians are. I'm watching this woman literally play chicken with the life of tens of millions.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 9.04am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The typical person isn't particularly political and they 'believe' what the media feed to them. The proof of this is historical and can even be seen in Russia now....just as I believe it can be seen here as well. The control of language is used to convince people that there is a kind of moral superiority in concepts, which is a kind of 'end of history' make believe, as in reality those concepts just push whatever agendas the elites of the current power structure desire. I keep hearing how what I think is on the 'fringe', yet at the same time I'm told that those ideas aren't allowed to be spread and should be banned from the political process. It's also ignored that I don't have a single idea that wasn't held commonly only decades ago. For myself I try to ignore the language and look at the practical outcomes of the politics. That is what took me from the centralist positions that the media and politicians, you regard as normal, sold to me back....and instead travel back to the social conservativism that use to be commonplace in this once socially cohesive country. I'm not interested in what's popular. I'm interested in inching as close to what's true as possible. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Mar 2022 3.40am) That this idea is held is proof, of itself, that this is untrue. Unless I have lived my 77 years in another dimension, many of these ideas, whilst around, were just as fringe at every stage of my life as they are now. Holding ideas is not a crime. Spreading them in ways which assist the enemy used to be and, in my opinion, ought still be subject to self-restraint at the very least. The fact that some commentators cannot resist the temptation to play cheap politics at a time of crisis does not impress me.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 9.08am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The difference in military loss estimates and progress vary considerably between UK/western and what's reported as Russian estimates. It is the same regarding the progress of the war and who does what attack. While I doubt the latter will probably ever be known for certain but at least the extent of military losses should become known over time....and of course the progress of the war won't be able to be hidden by propaganda. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Mar 2022 6.38am) Unless you are prepared to believe that the Ukrainians are destroying their own cities, using air power they don't possess, then the evidence of your own eyes is enough to determine that much of what we see isn't propaganda.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 17 Mar 22 9.17am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That this idea is held is proof, of itself, that this is untrue. Unless I have lived my 77 years in another dimension, many of these ideas, whilst around, were just as fringe at every stage of my life as they are now. Holding ideas is not a crime. Spreading them in ways which assist the enemy used to be and, in my opinion, ought still be subject to self-restraint at the very least. The fact that some commentators cannot resist the temptation to play cheap politics at a time of crisis does not impress me. Yes, I think you must have been living in a completely different world. Ok, here is proof for you. Enoch Powell gave his 'Rivers of Blood' speech on April 20th 1968. As you say you are 77 that would have made you 22 or 23 at the time....so apparently a fully grown man in the workforce. A Gallup poll that was carried out shortly after the 1968 speech found that 74% of the British population agreed with the “Rivers of Blood” speech. You must have been living in a different world. Here is a Guardian link from 2018 as proof...a website you'll no doubt feel very cozy with. There are also some other interesting bits of information about reality that seem directly against your perception of what people believe....all to be found in that Guardian article.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 9.23am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Here is the latest Tucker Carlson link. I literally can't believe how dim some politicians are. I'm watching this woman literally play chicken with the life of tens of millions. In truth, she is arguing for what is going to be done, and not for anything else. She doesn't advocate the direct involvement of US personnel, but for the provision of modern anti-aircraft systems so the Ukrainians can impose a no-fly zone themselves from the ground. There seems general agreement about this. She also makes the argument, which I have heard from others, that we should keep the Russians guessing on whether we would ever get involved and not be so forthright. I disagree with that. It's too risky. Carlson is always looking for a fight.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Badger11 Beckenham 17 Mar 22 9.25am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yes, I think you must have been living in a completely different world. Ok, here is proof for you. Enoch Powell gave his 'Rivers of Blood' speech on April 20th 1968. As you say you are 77 that would have made you 22 or 23 at the time....so apparently a fully grown man in the workforce. A Gallup poll that was carried out shortly after the 1968 speech found that 74% of the British population agreed with the “Rivers of Blood” speech. You must have been living in a different world. Here is a Guardian link from 2018 as proof...a website you'll no doubt feel very cozy with. There are also some other interesting bits of information about reality that seem directly against your perception of what people believe....all to be found in that Guardian article. Yup the elite tell us we hold fringe beliefs such as a woman is a person capable of menstruation. The Labour Party could not even define a woman on International Woman's day but if the rest of us don't fall in with the pro Trans lobby we are the extremists. The NHS is currently conducting a review of single sex wards, women's rights groups have been excluded from this discussion and the person conducting the review has already said Trans people are women. Some review. Some people do hold extreme or fringe opinions but many who are classed as that are actually the silent majority, do not always except what the elites tell you.
One more point |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 17 Mar 22 9.26am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Unless you are prepared to believe that the Ukrainians are destroying their own cities, using air power they don't possess, then the evidence of your own eyes is enough to determine that much of what we see isn't propaganda. I think you are trying to get me to say that this is happening. I wouldn't be surprised if you state to claim that I think the Russians aren't even bombing the Ukraine, when they have even stated they are. So I'm not stating as factual what you apparently want to have me say. You on the other hand seem to be suggesting that the Ukraine can't blow up their own buildings. What I do know is that the Ukrainians want to draw the west into fighting the Russians in a wider war. Now, just how could that be achieved? Apparently the Ukrainians don't have artillery....apparently they have don't have drones with missiles.....funny that, because there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Mar 2022 9.59am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 17 Mar 22 9.30am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
In truth, she is arguing for what is going to be done, and not for anything else. She doesn't advocate the direct involvement of US personnel, but for the provision of modern anti-aircraft systems so the Ukrainians can impose a no-fly zone themselves from the ground. There seems general agreement about this. She also makes the argument, which I have heard from others, that we should keep the Russians guessing on whether we would ever get involved and not be so forthright. I disagree with that. It's too risky. Carlson is always looking for a fight. I think you are being far too kind to her. She advocates for escalation of the conflict using more offensive weapons. It must be remembered that it's her opinions....not those of Carlson who wants the focus to be upon peace terms rather than escalation....but her voice that gets a vote on US action.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Mar 22 9.35am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yes, I think you must have been living in a completely different world. Ok, here is proof for you. Enoch Powell gave his 'Rivers of Blood' speech on April 20th 1968. As you say you are 77 that would have made you 22 or 23 at the time....so apparently a fully grown man in the workforce. A Gallup poll that was carried out shortly after the 1968 speech found that 74% of the British population agreed with the “Rivers of Blood” speech. You must have been living in a different world. Here is a Guardian link from 2018 as proof...a website you'll no doubt feel very cozy with. There are also some other interesting bits of information about reality that seem directly against your perception of what people believe....all to be found in that Guardian article. I am not going to dissect the Powell speech and show why people might have voted that way at that precise moment. It caught a mood at the time. The comment I responded to was that there wasn't a single idea that wasn't held commonly only decades ago. It's untrue. People were much less aware and informed back then, and ill prepared for change. Preying on fear worked for Powell back then. It wouldn't today with most of us. The world has changed. Most of us have changed. Some clearly haven't.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 17 Mar 22 9.43am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I am not going to dissect the Powell speech and show why people might have voted that way at that precise moment. It caught a mood at the time. The comment I responded to was that there wasn't a single idea that wasn't held commonly only decades ago. It's untrue. People were much less aware and informed back then, and ill prepared for change. Preying on fear worked for Powell back then. It wouldn't today with most of us. The world has changed. Most of us have changed. Some clearly haven't. Even when you are factually proven to be inaccurate you can't admit you're wrong. As for your perception of modern attitudes you make statements that completely ignore those who disagree with you using words like 'fringe' and extreme, when those opinions are still commonly held. The Guardian article....if you actually read it shoves that in your face. You just aren't interested in the truth.....which I suppose shouldn't be surprising for someone who spent decades in marketing and advertising. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Mar 2022 9.44am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 17 Mar 22 9.49am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The world has changed. Most of us have changed. Some clearly haven't. Yeah, because those that love change move to Cornwall don't they. 'Change for thee, not for me'.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / RegisterNew users
Registration is now on our new message board
Existing users
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
Sponsors
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.