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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Stirlingsays  27 Feb 19 4.18pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Calling people retarded is pretty stupid.
I'm genuinely hoping you wrote that with your tongue in cheek Steely.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 27 Feb 19 4.22pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
There will always be the next vote M, we get your point I am sure by now. Calling people retarded is pretty stupid. Democracy is ongoing and in the future people may choose Europe and even a different system as ours is so dated. The next vote can only be on the question of rejoining. Or a political party can have it as a manifesto promise in a general election. All perfectly valid and I would defend the right to not only espouse those views but campaign for them with all the energy I can muster. But which part of Leave do you fail to grasp? A vote was held. A promise was made. We need to leave. If that fails to happen, why should I ever vote again? And spare me all the usual tosh about manifesto promises being broken. This was a specific referendum. With two options. Leave or Remain. There are no nuances to this. No small print. No interpretations of an outcome. A straight forward, binary, choice. And 52% wins. 50.01% wins. Why is that so difficult to grasp?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Matov 27 Feb 19 4.22pm |
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Doh. Edited by Matov (27 Feb 2019 4.23pm)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 27 Feb 19 4.32pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
The next vote can only be on the question of rejoining. Or a political party can have it as a manifesto promise in a general election. All perfectly valid and I would defend the right to not only espouse those views but campaign for them with all the energy I can muster. But which part of Leave do you fail to grasp? A vote was held. A promise was made. We need to leave. If that fails to happen, why should I ever vote again? And spare me all the usual tosh about manifesto promises being broken. This was a specific referendum. With two options. Leave or Remain. There are no nuances to this. No small print. No interpretations of an outcome. A straight forward, binary, choice. And 52% wins. 50.01% wins. Why is that so difficult to grasp? Because there should be whole-hearted consent to leave, just as was required to remain in 1975. This fractured country is the result of that, 50/50 just makes everything worse. It is worse for leavers IMO as the country is now leaving in name only, and at great cost. Really we are stronger remaining with our veto and undeserved senior position in the bloc, but we are assumptive in still thinking that we can remain at all. Looking at it from the EU perspective it is best to put this behind them and move on. Tbh, I don't think the UK could have a relationship with anybody that involved any 'give and take'.
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| Matov 27 Feb 19 4.36pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Because there should be whole-hearted consent to leave, just as was required to remain in 1975. This fractured country is the result of that, 50/50 just makes everything worse. It is worse for leavers IMO as the country is now leaving in name only, and at great cost. Really we are stronger remaining with our veto and undeserved senior position in the bloc, but we are assumptive in still thinking that we can remain at all. Looking at it from the EU perspective it is best to put this behind them and move on. Tbh, I don't think the UK could have a relationship with anybody that involved any 'give and take'. This is pure fantasy. There is no alternative history or narrative that can be seriously considered. We had a vote with a cast iron, no small print, promise that the result would be acted upon. A simple question was asked. It was answered with 52% replying 'Leave'. That is it. Over. Done and dusted. There is no EU perspective on this. Only a UK one. And if you fail to grasp this then the term retard is perfectly valid.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 27 Feb 19 4.37pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
This is pure fantasy. There is no alternative history or narrative that can be seriously considered. We had a vote with a cast iron, no small print, promise that the result would be acted upon. A simple question was asked. It was answered with 52% replying 'Leave'. That is it. Over. Done and dusted. There is no EU perspective on this. Only a UK one. And if you fail to grasp this then the term retard is perfectly valid. Not going any further with you
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| Stirlingsays 27 Feb 19 4.51pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Not going any further with you
You're not quite the misguided but kindly Communist type but at least you have a sense of humour. Come the revolution.....I'll sneek you away from the wall line up....how about that? Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Feb 2019 4.53pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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cryrst  The garden of England 27 Feb 19 4.51pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Nope. I just respect Matov more out of all of the people here with similar opinions as he is actually prepared to do something about his/her passionately put across points of view. That doesn't mean you can't have them, but then really all it is then is just hot air. So trying to advocate rioting as a way to get your point across or because things havent gone your way is correct then?
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| Matov 27 Feb 19 4.56pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
So trying to advocate rioting as a way to get your point across or because things havent gone your way is correct then? But things did go my way. I abided by the democratic process. I went along and voted Leave on June 23rd in absolute good faith that the result would be acted upon. I, along with over 17 million other people, played by the rules. What other option is open to us? Or does democracy only matter when you get the result that you want? Surely we have a duty to protect democracy? Is that not what we are told around the 11th of November every year? That we should make the effort to vote because people died protecting that right? This is a genuine potential tipping point in our countries history. I had some Remain voting family over for dinner last night. They all made the point that the Leave vote needed respecting because that won. That is how democracy works. Or have I missed some crucial part here?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 27 Feb 19 5.00pm |
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So when a political party wins a general election, do we have to consider those who voted for the second place party? Maybe take some of their policies on board too? Of course not and referendums are no different.
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| Dannyh.V2 Stone lickers 27 Feb 19 5.00pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
haha. OK. Seeing as we're being pedantic here, 18/34ths of 'the people' then. And yes, 90% of people are morons. This is unrelated to voting, it's just how it is. The point was being made in response to someone chirping up about how 'the people' should be allowed to govern. Now that would cause rioting and chaos. The rest of your three things, which were actually 5 or six, are not in any way new or interesting, and frankly are a little boring.
You're beginning to sound like a jumped up little oik. Instead of dismissing my points as boring why don't you argue against them. Edited by Dannyh.V2 (27 Feb 2019 5.05pm)
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 27 Feb 19 5.10pm |
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Originally posted by Dannyh.V2
You're beginning to sound like a jumped up little oik. Instead of dismissing my points as boring why don't you arguing against them. I'll take that! Yes. Most people wouldn't know the right thing to do even if it was shoved in their face. And a lot of people are not well versed in current affairs, socially inept and or damaging, have no interest in empathy or others, reading in general, and rely on gossip, hearsay and the sun for their daily briefing. In everyday context fairly harmless, allow them to govern and you create bedlam (again, responding to the 'people should self-govern' point, again, madness). By the way you can be empathetic and still think that most people are morons. It's not mutually exclusive. Also I'm not discussing whether we should leave or remain, I'm simply responding to others points of view that are actually a bit more stimulating. I see no reason to 'argue' against your 7 point plan or whatever it was as I'm not arguing for or against it anyway. Your points are also not new or interesting, and have been done to death on this forum and elsewhere.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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