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Matov 26 Feb 19 3.24pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Sovereignty lies at the heart of his issue. The EU internationalists want to create a superstate. The fruitcakes are in charge of the asylum, so we need to exit the asylum. To a certain extent but lets not beat around the bush here. The knife currently heading towards the space between our metaphorical shoulder blades is being wielded by British people. I loathe the EU but I do not blame it for acting as it has. It has to protect its own downside. All of my intense rage is aimed at other British people. Utter scum and filth who will laugh at our Leave votes on June 26th being cast aside. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Feb 19 3.24pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sovereignty lies at the heart of his issue. The EU internationalists want to create a superstate.

The fruitcakes are in charge of the asylum, so we need to exit the asylum.

To a certain extent but lets not beat around the bush here. The knife currently heading towards the space between our metaphorical shoulder blades is being wielded by British people. I loathe the EU but I do not blame it for acting as it has. It has to protect its own downside. All of my intense rage is aimed at other British people. Utter scum and filth who will laugh at our Leave votes on June 26th being cast aside.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Stirlingsays 26 Feb 19 3.26pm
Originally posted by Matov Why is violence such a bad thing? Surely our democracy is worth fighting for? That is the point of this all. And if we lose this fight, then what chance do we stand with the bigger issues? This is the line in the sand. There is no fudging where you stand on this one. The time for being able to see both sides of the argument is now rapidly coming to an end. I see this as a longer game. I understand your anger but I don't see this as the hill. I think energy is better spent constructively rather than destructively. Be apart of the movement that protects what you can protect. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Feb 19 3.26pm

Originally posted by Matov

Why is violence such a bad thing? Surely our democracy is worth fighting for? That is the point of this all. And if we lose this fight, then what chance do we stand with the bigger issues?

This is the line in the sand. There is no fudging where you stand on this one. The time for being able to see both sides of the argument is now rapidly coming to an end.

I see this as a longer game. I understand your anger but I don't see this as the hill.

I think energy is better spent constructively rather than destructively. Be apart of the movement that protects what you can protect.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Matov 26 Feb 19 3.34pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I see this as a longer game. I understand your anger but I don't see this as the hill. I think energy is better spent constructively rather than destructively. Be apart of the movement that protects what you can protect. I have to disagree. Not only is this the hill, but we lose this one and essentially we are finished. They will never give us a vote again of this nature and essentially our voices will be dismissed. They get away with this and the backlash against those who dared to challenge the status quo will be immense. We either stand NOW or else it is all over. They f***ed up in June 2016 big time. We either win this fight or might well just give up the ghost. Edited by Matov (26 Feb 2019 3.34pm) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Feb 19 3.34pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I see this as a longer game. I understand your anger but I don't see this as the hill.

I think energy is better spent constructively rather than destructively. Be apart of the movement that protects what you can protect.

I have to disagree. Not only is this the hill, but we lose this one and essentially we are finished. They will never give us a vote again of this nature and essentially our voices will be dismissed. They get away with this and the backlash against those who dared to challenge the status quo will be immense.

We either stand NOW or else it is all over. They f***ed up in June 2016 big time. We either win this fight or might well just give up the ghost.

Edited by Matov (26 Feb 2019 3.34pm)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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davenotamonkey 26 Feb 19 3.36pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I see this as a longer game. I understand your anger but I don't see this as the hill. I think energy is better spent constructively rather than destructively. Be apart of the movement that protects what you can protect. To what end? Democratic means have failed in expressing our mandate to the political parties. The "longer game" is ever closer union and further erosion of our capability and (in the case of our political class) will to govern ourselves. It won't stop. The cultish EU-flag waving EU-supranationalists will try and sell it to you as the "status quo", fully in the knowledge that tomorrow they'll take our tax policy, then next year our foreign policy. It. Won't. Stop. That was, in purest terms, why I voted for Brexit: for the right to govern ourselves.
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davenotamonkey

26 Feb 19 3.36pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I see this as a longer game. I understand your anger but I don't see this as the hill.

I think energy is better spent constructively rather than destructively. Be apart of the movement that protects what you can protect.

To what end? Democratic means have failed in expressing our mandate to the political parties.

The "longer game" is ever closer union and further erosion of our capability and (in the case of our political class) will to govern ourselves. It won't stop. The cultish EU-flag waving EU-supranationalists will try and sell it to you as the "status quo", fully in the knowledge that tomorrow they'll take our tax policy, then next year our foreign policy. It. Won't. Stop.

That was, in purest terms, why I voted for Brexit: for the right to govern ourselves.

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Stirlingsays 26 Feb 19 3.36pm
Originally posted by Matov To a certain extent but lets not beat around the bush here. The knife currently heading towards the space between our metaphorical shoulder blades is being wielded by British people. I loathe the EU but I do not blame it for acting as it has. It has to protect its own downside. All of my intense rage is aimed at other British people. Utter scum and filth who will laugh at our Leave votes on June 26th being cast aside. Yep, I fully agree. But they are British people with a different vision. The battle for the vision the country had for itself was lost way back in the sixties and on the EU in the eighties and nineties. The chickens are coming home to roost. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Feb 19 3.36pm

Originally posted by Matov

Yep, I fully agree.

But they are British people with a different vision.

The battle for the vision the country had for itself was lost way back in the sixties and on the EU in the eighties and nineties.

The chickens are coming home to roost.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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davenotamonkey 26 Feb 19 3.36pm
Originally posted by Matov I have to disagree. Not only is this the hill, but we lose this one and essentially we are finished. They will never give us a vote again of this nature and essentially our voices will be dismissed. They get away with this and the backlash against those who dared to challenge the status quo will be immense. We either stand NOW or else it is all over. They f***ed up in June 2016 big time. We either win this fight or might well just give up the ghost. Edited by Matov (26 Feb 2019 3.34pm) I agree. Without wanting to be hyperbolic, our nation-state democracy lives or dies in the next month or so.
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davenotamonkey

26 Feb 19 3.36pm

Originally posted by Matov

We either stand NOW or else it is all over. They f***ed up in June 2016 big time. We either win this fight or might well just give up the ghost.

Edited by Matov (26 Feb 2019 3.34pm)

I agree. Without wanting to be hyperbolic, our nation-state democracy lives or dies in the next month or so.

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Stirlingsays 26 Feb 19 3.43pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey To what end? Democratic means have failed in expressing our mandate to the political parties. The "longer game" is ever closer union and further erosion of our capability and (in the case of our political class) will to govern ourselves. It won't stop. The cultish EU-flag waving EU-supranationalists will try and sell it to you as the "status quo", fully in the knowledge that tomorrow they'll take our tax policy, then next year our foreign policy. It. Won't. Stop. That was, in purest terms, why I voted for Brexit: for the right to govern ourselves. Yep. However, you pick your battles. I will come down for demonstrations and all the rest of it if Brexit is stopped and I've never gone on a demonstration in my life. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

26 Feb 19 3.43pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

To what end? Democratic means have failed in expressing our mandate to the political parties.

That was, in purest terms, why I voted for Brexit: for the right to govern ourselves.

Yep.

However, you pick your battles.

I will come down for demonstrations and all the rest of it if Brexit is stopped and I've never gone on a demonstration in my life.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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steeleye20 Croydon 26 Feb 19 3.50pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey I agree. Without wanting to be hyperbolic, our nation-state democracy lives or dies in the next month or so. Nonsense you simply get to vote on the final deal. What could be more democratic. Not in favour myself, revoking article 50 is better than May's sell-out.
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steeleye20

Croydon 26 Feb 19 3.50pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

I agree. Without wanting to be hyperbolic, our nation-state democracy lives or dies in the next month or so.

Nonsense you simply get to vote on the final deal.

What could be more democratic.

Not in favour myself, revoking article 50 is better than May's sell-out.

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Matov 26 Feb 19 3.50pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Yep. However, you pick your battles. I am picking this one. Because if they can stab us in the back after we played by all their rules then I hate to think what they will then do once they realise we are not willing to stand and fight to have our votes on June 23rd honoured. This is the one. Everything else that follows will be lost before it is even fought. In this, we stand a chance. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Feb 19 3.50pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yep.

However, you pick your battles.

I am picking this one. Because if they can stab us in the back after we played by all their rules then I hate to think what they will then do once they realise we are not willing to stand and fight to have our votes on June 23rd honoured.

This is the one. Everything else that follows will be lost before it is even fought. In this, we stand a chance.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Matov 26 Feb 19 3.53pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Nonsense you simply get to vote on the final deal. What could be more democratic. Not in favour myself, revoking article 50 is better than May's sell-out. The democratic decision has been reached. We are leaving. Either with Mays 'deal' or without but we are gone. There is no revoking Article 50 unless you want to bring it all crashing down. Because that is what will happen. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Feb 19 3.53pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Nonsense you simply get to vote on the final deal.

What could be more democratic.

Not in favour myself, revoking article 50 is better than May's sell-out.

The democratic decision has been reached. We are leaving. Either with Mays 'deal' or without but we are gone. There is no revoking Article 50 unless you want to bring it all crashing down. Because that is what will happen.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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davenotamonkey 26 Feb 19 3.57pm
Originally posted by Matov The democratic decision has been reached. We are leaving. Either with Mays 'deal' or without but we are gone. There is no revoking Article 50 unless you want to bring it all crashing down. Because that is what will happen. He won't read it, but you might... here's a good article on why the "Peoples Vote" (I assume it was teabags that voted in June 2016) is bulls***: [Link]
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davenotamonkey

26 Feb 19 3.57pm

Originally posted by Matov

He won't read it, but you might... here's a good article on why the "Peoples Vote" (I assume it was teabags that voted in June 2016) is bulls***:

[Link]

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Pussay Patrol 26 Feb 19 4.00pm
Originally posted by Matov I am odds with most in the Leave camp in that I actually think that EU freedom of movement is positive for the UK. It is non-EU immigration that I am opposed to. But the issue is that it needs to be SOLELY a British issue. Nothing to do with what other nations may or may not like or agree with. For me this is all about Sovereignty, not about specific issues. And the actual issue of democracy. We voted on June 23rd with a simple question being asked of us. Leave or Remain. That was it. The result of that has to be abided by or else no other vote ever has a validity. For me I will fight on that simple premise. So we must leave the EU on 29th march because of non Eu immigration? I'm a little suspicious about this contributor, what other forums are you a member of ? Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah
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Pussay Patrol

26 Feb 19 4.00pm

Originally posted by Matov

I am odds with most in the Leave camp in that I actually think that EU freedom of movement is positive for the UK. It is non-EU immigration that I am opposed to.

But the issue is that it needs to be SOLELY a British issue. Nothing to do with what other nations may or may not like or agree with. For me this is all about Sovereignty, not about specific issues.

And the actual issue of democracy. We voted on June 23rd with a simple question being asked of us. Leave or Remain. That was it. The result of that has to be abided by or else no other vote ever has a validity. For me I will fight on that simple premise.

So we must leave the EU on 29th march because of non Eu immigration?

I'm a little suspicious about this contributor, what other forums are you a member of ?

Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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