Salisbury?

A couple of excellent videos worth watching.

The first is the role the Azov regiment plays in Ukraine
[Link]

This one about potential escalation
[Link]

Its worth noting too that Iran launched a missile strike against the US consulate in Iraq just the other day & the US failed to act, this to me is quite telling.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (15 Mar 2022 6.37pm)

The mountains are calling & I must go.

Yes, they're currently playing both sides, and even in a situation where they were deemed somewhat more pro Russian it would be incredibly lopsided, and more akin to being held back, which is no doubt how Putin chooses to perceive the West currently. The exchange of one problem for another.

Clearly nobody knows precisely how things will pan out, but it certainly appears at minimum that Putin has royally screwed over his own people. Yes, hopefully sanctions will have an impact significant enough that a fair solution to end this madness is agreed upon.

So 'far fetched' that they signed an agreement pledging to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine if they gave them up. I thought agreements (as in the NATO one) were what was to be valued and stood by? Some comments here are unfortunate self flagellation and fear at Russian threats that would still be present even if they took over Ukraine and set their sights elsewhere. We are where we are. There is zero wrong with our basic level of support for the Ukrainian people to give them a fighting chance. If Russia are bombing hospitals day after day (which is something actively happening 'now' as matter of importance unlike this panicked 'bio lab' Russia propaganda push that is lapped up) the deficit of movement towards peace is a ball in their court. Putin doesn't respect weakness and is fueled by purpose, not by playing nice because we've been 'fair'.

Edited by BlueJay (16 Mar 2022 12.37am)

If you think agreements made by governments have to be honoured then there is plenty of transportation available for you to transport yourself to the Ukraine and honour them. I'd even respect that decision while thinking it was pointless to throw your life away before you had to....and I'm hearing that the agreement you refer to wasn't ratified in either the US or Uk.

What some bureaucratic d1cks wrote twenty odd years ago to get what they wanted is for the birds. I didn't know about that....did anyone here? If nations commit themselves to fight I want that huge decision to be debated first.....seems like it should have been because it's turned out to be little more than platitudes.

If I have to I'll stand and accept millions die for the Nato covenant.....not one inch more than that, and not one inch less.

You and anyone else who feels differently are free to live their principles.

You also talk about Russian propaganda, yet in my view, you appear to think that whatever comes out of the state department and onto news media is purity itself. I'll say it again, I don't think you know what is true from untrue, yet you are happy to criticise others out of some personal certainty.

In my view, if there isn't a peace agreement then the only sensible options I see for Russia are a complete withdraw, ....which obviously we all want but we know that's highly unlikely as it would lead to Putin falling.

The other option, failing a peace agreement is to take all of the Ukraine...as without a demilitarized Ukraine it's a guerrilla war, which just repeats the failed strategies of the west in Iraq and Afghanistan and bleeds them over time.....If they take all of the Ukraine I imagine they will be ruthless and countless people will die.

Personally I view the Russians sharing a border with Poland as a very very bad idea.....The Poles...quite rightly in my view, hate the Russian state for historical reasons and it would be a very bad idea for all of us as fighting would be likely at some point.

For this reason I view a peace agreement as more likely than not.

I think those with sense in the Pentagon.....know this....though that won't be Harris or Biden....Especially Harris...I doubt she even knows Poland's history with Russia.

I have my fingers crossed for a peace agreement as soon as possible. I also have my fingers crossed on tensions reducing between the west and Russia as I think you guys are completely wrong on thinking a Russia/China block isn't likely or particularly harmful....Also there's this idea that the Europe take on this war is shared around the world, when the reality is most aren't going to change their relations because of it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Mar 2022 10.02am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Thanks. The information about the Azov regiment was new to me, interesting and chilling too. Reflecting on it, I think it's not surprising to learn. These attitudes exist everywhere, though fortunately usually as a tiny minority. In Ukraine, having the Russians on your doorstep threatening you, occupying your land and now this, it's unsurprising that they appeal to nationalist sentiment and attract high numbers. Putin must be their best recruitment sergeant ever.

I can well imagine Putin using this as propaganda in Russia and focussing on them as what he is fighting. Captured Azov fighters will be forced to "confess" and their phones raided for "evidence".

It's dangerous too. If the suggestions I am reading today about a settlement beginning to look possible, which would enable Putin to save face and claim a victory, these people are unlikely to accept it, blame their government for a sell out and resort to an ongoing guerilla war. Keeping them onside is going to be a challenge. Ukraine could end up with a civil war which, if the Azov won, which they could with the weapons they now have, would change our own relationship with them.

So lots of unknowns still to be resolved.

The escalation video didn't add much, in my opinion

The missile strike in Iraq was reported here. It didn't hit, or even get close to a building under construction, so has been dismissed as unimportant.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.