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The Election Thread
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 gerry theagle  newbury 07 Dec 19 11.39am |
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What else would they expect. I'm a "floating voter" and watched the Johnson /Corbyn head to head last night, what really got on my nerves was Bojos constant use of "get Brexit done". He actually said it 12 or 13 times,I think that he thinks we are all stupid.So my vote is still up tor grabs but probably not Conservative.
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| Stirlingsays 07 Dec 19 11.45am |
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Originally posted by gerry theagle
What else would they expect. I'm a "floating voter" and watched the Johnson /Corbyn head to head last night, what really got on my nerves was Bojos constant use of "get Brexit done". He actually said it 12 or 13 times,I think that he thinks we are all stupid.So my vote is still up tor grabs but probably not Conservative.
However personally I don't see the sense in voting for any other than Tory or Labour in a GE.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 08 Dec 19 8.26am |
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The Sunday papers are full of the GE as the politicians make their last pitch for our votes. Depending on your preference either Boris is going to walk it or Corbyn is narrowing the lead daily. One thing I think all the papers agree on is that the marginal seats will win it so its nor really about how many millions vote for this or that party but down to thousands in around 40 seats. I am surprised that Corbyn's pledge to allow EU citizens here to vote in another Brexit referendum didn't get more traction. EU citizens are only allowed to vote in EU elections and local council this is pretty stanard across Europe so what's democratic about allowing millions of EU citizens to vote here when 1.5m UK citizens can't vote in their countries. Labour has made much of the delay in publishing the report into Russian interference the implication being that the Tories are in bed with Putin. Meanwhile they brandish a document with claims the Tories will sell of the NHS which now transpires comes from Russian sources. I think the Tories will win with about a 40 seats majority but they are right to be cautious how many shy Labour voters are there compared to shy Tories. As for the mood of the voters I think Thursday can't come soon enough most of us are fed up seeing politicians dominate our viewing screens. Still all to play for. Edited by Badger11 (08 Dec 2019 8.28am)
One more point |
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| Matov 08 Dec 19 11.08am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
As for the mood of the voters I think Thursday can't come soon enough most of us are fed up seeing politicians dominate our viewing screens. Edited by Badger11 (08 Dec 2019 8.28am) Agree with the 40 seat prediction. Could be 5 either way but who knows? Bringing me to your second point. There are simply no more definites in British politics anymore. People's faith in almost every aspect of our political discourse appears to be at an all-time low. Polls are wrong, 'experts' are shown to be laughable charlatans, time and time again, and our political class must be the most venal and out of touch it ever has been. I want a Tory win purely because I want Brexit done and they are the only main party seemingly (and I still have my doubts about them) actually implementing the Brexit result in a meaningful way. I genuinely fear for what this country might become/descend into if we are put through the farce of Labours second referendum. In the face of both a mass boycott by Leave voters allied with Labour attemtping to rig the electorate via extending the franchise to both U16's and EU citizens, it only offers even more division with all the stresses and strains that brings with it. I suspect that both the Labour Party and the Conservatives face potential disintegration in the face of a loss this Thursday. A Labour loss will spark of a huge civil war within its ranks as it divides along progressive/traditionalist lines along with a nice North/South divide thrown into the mix. Johnson fails to gain a majority and I struggle to see how he survives which in turn means the Tories will NEED to form an alliance with the Brexit party because Leave then becomes the defining issue. They simply cannot sit back and allow the result from June 23rd to be cast aside. Interesting times. Best outcome is a Tory majority sufficient to get us out of the EU but not large enough to make Johnson feel in anyway invincible. Then politics can have a reset and we see what comes out of the mix. But if Labour get their way and foist this farce of a second referendum on us, I genuinely fear what happens to the UK. I cannot see it surviving us not leaving the EU. No point really. If we are to become merely a collection of regions within the wider EU Empire then why on earth does the UK make any sense anymore? England would need to make its own way. Have to. It wants to Leave and to force it to stay offers nothing but more chaos.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 08 Dec 19 11.40am |
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Originally posted by Matov
Agree with the 40 seat prediction. Could be 5 either way but who knows? Bringing me to your second point. There are simply no more definites in British politics anymore. People's faith in almost every aspect of our political discourse appears to be at an all-time low. Polls are wrong, 'experts' are shown to be laughable charlatans, time and time again, and our political class must be the most venal and out of touch it ever has been. I want a Tory win purely because I want Brexit done and they are the only main party seemingly (and I still have my doubts about them) actually implementing the Brexit result in a meaningful way. I genuinely fear for what this country might become/descend into if we are put through the farce of Labours second referendum. In the face of both a mass boycott by Leave voters allied with Labour attemtping to rig the electorate via extending the franchise to both U16's and EU citizens, it only offers even more division with all the stresses and strains that brings with it. I suspect that both the Labour Party and the Conservatives face potential disintegration in the face of a loss this Thursday. A Labour loss will spark of a huge civil war within its ranks as it divides along progressive/traditionalist lines along with a nice North/South divide thrown into the mix. Johnson fails to gain a majority and I struggle to see how he survives which in turn means the Tories will NEED to form an alliance with the Brexit party because Leave then becomes the defining issue. They simply cannot sit back and allow the result from June 23rd to be cast aside. Interesting times. Best outcome is a Tory majority sufficient to get us out of the EU but not large enough to make Johnson feel in anyway invincible. Then politics can have a reset and we see what comes out of the mix. But if Labour get their way and foist this farce of a second referendum on us, I genuinely fear what happens to the UK. I cannot see it surviving us not leaving the EU. No point really. If we are to become merely a collection of regions within the wider EU Empire then why on earth does the UK make any sense anymore? England would need to make its own way. Have to. It wants to Leave and to force it to stay offers nothing but more chaos. You make some good points. I was listening to a political scientist on LBC can't remember the guys name Professor someone anyway he made some really interesting comments about all the parties. One in particular was that if the Tories win its because traditional Labour voters in the north have turned to them. The problem for the Tories will then be that beyond Brexit what can the Tories offer voters in these marginal seats to keep them onside. I guess that is why Johnson keeps saying he is a one nation Tory. So it is possible that he will move the Tories to the centre to keep those marginal voters which of course is the opposite of what he opponents say that he is "right wing swivel eyed loon".
Edited by Badger11 (08 Dec 2019 11.41am)
One more point |
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| Stirlingsays 08 Dec 19 11.59am |
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I have to admit.....the election stuff is pretty boring....I'm going to try to avoid any TV stuff until election night. Lefty activists on Twitter and FB are really nasty and insulting.....Quite amusing really.....God knows what they will be like the day after.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 08 Dec 19 12.13pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Lefty activists on Twitter and FB are really nasty and insulting.....Quite amusing really.....God knows what they will be like the day after. They are utterly foul but for every action there is a reaction and that is what I fear most about a second referendum. Because it is blatantly clear that the R2's have no intention of trying to convince people who voted Leave in 2016 to change their mind. Instead, they are looking to effectively gerrymander the electorate along with not even having the semblance of a valid 'Leave' option on the ballot paper. Interesting to read about Farage today. Saying that he has registered the 'Reform Party' and that once Brexit is achieved, will rebrand his current political group. Offering abolition of the House of Lords, a form of PR and so on. Potentially a game changer because people are clearly sick to death of our conventional political class. A pithy name that seemingly cuts into the current Zeitgeist of disillusionment.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Stirlingsays 08 Dec 19 12.48pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
They are utterly foul but for every action there is a reaction and that is what I fear most about a second referendum. Because it is blatantly clear that the R2's have no intention of trying to convince people who voted Leave in 2016 to change their mind. Instead, they are looking to effectively gerrymander the electorate along with not even having the semblance of a valid 'Leave' option on the ballot paper. Interesting to read about Farage today. Saying that he has registered the 'Reform Party' and that once Brexit is achieved, will rebrand his current political group. Offering abolition of the House of Lords, a form of PR and so on. Potentially a game changer because people are clearly sick to death of our conventional political class. A pithy name that seemingly cuts into the current Zeitgeist of disillusionment. I'd agree with a root and branch discussion on moving political representation into the modern day but I don't believe that PR is necessarily the system for that......Personally I'd push politics away from the elite political class and have the major decisions more like the Swiss system. The Swiss vote in referendums up to four times a year. They vote on around 15 federal proposals and also cast their ballot on issues affecting individual districts at the same time......Far more democratic and less elitist. I'd reform the House of Lords, I wouldn't abolish it. I would certainly not allow it to be elected though....that's makes it even more political than it already is. I want a House of Lords or even Commons full of people with nothing but contempt for politics and political parties. I'd want only those who were highly intelligent and independent whose only concern was the national interest......admittedly a high bar. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Dec 2019 1.02pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 08 Dec 19 1.01pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'd agree with a root and branch discussion on moving political representation into the modern day but I don't believe that PR is necessarily the system for that......Personally I'd push politics away from the elite political class and have the major decisions more like the Swiss system. The Swiss vote in referendums up to four times a year. They vote on around 15 federal proposals and also cast their ballot on issues affecting individual districts at the same time......Far more democratic and less elitist. I'd reform the House of Lords, I wouldn't abolish it. I would certainly not allow it to be elected though....that's makes it even more political than it already is. I want a House of Commons full of people with nothing but contempt for politics and political parties. I'd want only those who were highly intelligent and independent whose only concern was the national interest......admittedly a high bar.
A lot in that. Always thought that one solution to an on going would be to effectively make the NHS the Royal Health Service. Have a reformed House of Lords, with members selected on merit from a variety of disciplines heading it up. Perhaps have a specific tax to fund it with people able to vote on that level. Take the institution out of politics. But it is clear that major reform is required. Perhaps Farage has hit upon something that could resonate once this clusterf*** of Brexit is done and dusted.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Stirlingsays 08 Dec 19 1.13pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
A lot in that. Always thought that one solution to an on going would be to effectively make the NHS the Royal Health Service. Have a reformed House of Lords, with members selected on merit from a variety of disciplines heading it up. Perhaps have a specific tax to fund it with people able to vote on that level. Take the institution out of politics. But it is clear that major reform is required. Perhaps Farage has hit upon something that could resonate once this clusterf*** of Brexit is done and dusted. Yep, there is an increasing recognition that what we have isn't as democratic and merit based as it could be. I view Farage as a tarnished legend. He's the core of how Brexit happened and he's always have my thanks for that. That said, I didn't like what happened with Ukip and the dishonesty over it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 08 Dec 19 2.14pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'd agree with a root and branch discussion on moving political representation into the modern day but I don't believe that PR is necessarily the system for that......Personally I'd push politics away from the elite political class and have the major decisions more like the Swiss system. The Swiss vote in referendums up to four times a year. They vote on around 15 federal proposals and also cast their ballot on issues affecting individual districts at the same time......Far more democratic and less elitist. I'd reform the House of Lords, I wouldn't abolish it. I would certainly not allow it to be elected though....that's makes it even more political than it already is. I want a House of Lords or even Commons full of people with nothing but contempt for politics and political parties. I'd want only those who were highly intelligent and independent whose only concern was the national interest......admittedly a high bar. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Dec 2019 1.02pm) *****Wisbech quietly seething with rage somewhere in the darks of deepest Cornwall*****
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| Stirlingsays 08 Dec 19 4.22pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
*****Wisbech quietly seething with rage somewhere in the darks of deepest Cornwall***** Lets hope he splutters on an early mince pie.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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