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Pawson Palace Croydon 03 Dec 14 1.23pm
Quote Seth at 03 Dec 2014 11.55am Quote Pawson Palace at 03 Dec 2014 10.33am Having read through the entirety of the UKIP manifesto properly I do like some of the policies they are proposing. I am unaware at present as I haven't researched fully what other parties are also offering these but the ones that stand out to me: - Offering of apprenticeships at a school level - Offering guaranteed employment opportunities for ex military service men and women in border force etc. - Abolish any plans to charge to see GP - Preventing "health tourists" - Opposing sale of NHS data to 3rd parties - Support a diverse energy portfolio - improved food labelling - limit child benefit to the first 2 UK resident children - Scrap tolls on roads - Enforce a foreign road tax like the Swiss have - Exempt stamp duty from brown field sites - English MPs to vote on English matters - no vote for prisoners - review BBC license fee - free parking in high street to help local business Some of these really appeal to me in all honesty and I think it demonstrates they have given some thought outside of the who anti EU agenda. Some of their policies do sound attractive but the problem is that no sooner do they publish a policy than they end up having to backtrack on it because someone else says something contradictory (see my link above), or they disown the entire manifesto, like Farage did with their 2010 effort. It's still likely that they'll do well in May because of the public desire to give the big 3 a kicking, but having a coherent set of policies which they can all rally round and agree on still appears to be a bridge too far for them. Agreed I guess that is why Lib Dems got done because they always could afford to say whatever they wanted, suddenly got into government and then couldn't deliver. Pride of South London Upper Holmesdale Block P
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Pawson Palace

Croydon 03 Dec 14 1.23pm

Quote Seth at 03 Dec 2014 11.55am

Quote Pawson Palace at 03 Dec 2014 10.33am

Having read through the entirety of the UKIP manifesto properly I do like some of the policies they are proposing. I am unaware at present as I haven't researched fully what other parties are also offering these but the ones that stand out to me:

- Offering of apprenticeships at a school level
- Offering guaranteed employment opportunities for ex military service men and women in border force etc.
- Abolish any plans to charge to see GP
- Preventing "health tourists"
- Opposing sale of NHS data to 3rd parties
- Support a diverse energy portfolio
- improved food labelling
- limit child benefit to the first 2 UK resident children
- Scrap tolls on roads
- Enforce a foreign road tax like the Swiss have
- Exempt stamp duty from brown field sites
- English MPs to vote on English matters
- no vote for prisoners
- review BBC license fee
- free parking in high street to help local business

Some of these really appeal to me in all honesty and I think it demonstrates they have given some thought outside of the who anti EU agenda.

Some of their policies do sound attractive but the problem is that no sooner do they publish a policy than they end up having to backtrack on it because someone else says something contradictory (see my link above), or they disown the entire manifesto, like Farage did with their 2010 effort.

It's still likely that they'll do well in May because of the public desire to give the big 3 a kicking, but having a coherent set of policies which they can all rally round and agree on still appears to be a bridge too far for them.

Agreed I guess that is why Lib Dems got done because they always could afford to say whatever they wanted, suddenly got into government and then couldn't deliver.

Pride of South London
Upper Holmesdale Block P

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matt_himself Matataland 03 Dec 14 2.45pm
Quote Kermit8 at 03 Dec 2014 12.44pm Quote matt_himself at 03 Dec 2014 7.30am Seth gave the answer I thought he would. He doesn't have an answer. He is just full of hate for UKIP. And that my friends is the reason why the left is retreating. No ideas. No positivity. No vision. Just base scaremongering. Thanks Seth. You have validated my opinion of you with this. Ok. I would suggest, however, that rather than flinging back what is irrevelance when UKIP are put under scrutiny that we stick to the party in question as they are the ones that will be attracting a fair few votes and shaking up Westminster. Because, as it is, there is no leftist party in their enviable position so best we focus on Nigel et al, don't you think, rather than use distraction and muddying the waters. Basically I have asked what is the leftish alternative to UKIP on a thread about UKIP to someone who has spent most of the thread attempting to discredit UKIP. It isn't distraction. It is a valid point. What can the left offer as an alternative? The answer, is silence "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 03 Dec 14 2.45pm

Quote Kermit8 at 03 Dec 2014 12.44pm

Quote matt_himself at 03 Dec 2014 7.30am

Seth gave the answer I thought he would.

He doesn't have an answer.

He is just full of hate for UKIP.

And that my friends is the reason why the left is retreating. No ideas. No positivity. No vision. Just base scaremongering.

Thanks Seth. You have validated my opinion of you with this.

Ok. I would suggest, however, that rather than flinging back what is irrevelance when UKIP are put under scrutiny that we stick to the party in question as they are the ones that will be attracting a fair few votes and shaking up Westminster.

Because, as it is, there is no leftist party in their enviable position so best we focus on Nigel et al, don't you think, rather than use distraction and muddying the waters.

Basically I have asked what is the leftish alternative to UKIP on a thread about UKIP to someone who has spent most of the thread attempting to discredit UKIP.

It isn't distraction. It is a valid point. What can the left offer as an alternative? The answer, is silence

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Seth On a pale blue dot 03 Dec 14 3.27pm
Quote npn at 03 Dec 2014 12.48pm Interestingly (and this is neither a pro nor anti UKIP point specifically) I've always wondered how the 'party line' works - I would be amazed if there is anyone in any party who agrees 100% with absolutely all of their party's positions on everything, yet they have to defend those positions in public. It is an interesting point, and parties spend a lot of time and effort on trying to make sure everyone follows the "party line". History shows us that voters don't like parties which are divided, although whether that happens with ukip is debatable given the public's apparent burning desire to kick the main 3 parties squarely in the face and use ukip as the vehicle for this kicking. All political parties are broad churches, but they generally try very hard to sound united on their policies. Those which don't usually suffer at the polls as a result. Why ukip keep failing on this might partly be because they are a relatively new party with only one real big beast and it's difficult for one person to keep control of what is a diverse collection of members and supporters whose only real uniting factor appears to be hostility towards the 3 main parties, the EU and immigration. In government there is the concept of "collective responsibility", whereby the cabinet has to agree on a line and follow it no matter what their personal view is. When these greatly contradict each other the person in question has to keep their mouth shut, or resign from the government out of principle, as we saw with, for example, Robin Cook over the Iraq war. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 03 Dec 14 3.27pm

Quote npn at 03 Dec 2014 12.48pm

Interestingly (and this is neither a pro nor anti UKIP point specifically) I've always wondered how the 'party line' works - I would be amazed if there is anyone in any party who agrees 100% with absolutely all of their party's positions on everything, yet they have to defend those positions in public.

It is an interesting point, and parties spend a lot of time and effort on trying to make sure everyone follows the "party line". History shows us that voters don't like parties which are divided, although whether that happens with ukip is debatable given the public's apparent burning desire to kick the main 3 parties squarely in the face and use ukip as the vehicle for this kicking.

All political parties are broad churches, but they generally try very hard to sound united on their policies. Those which don't usually suffer at the polls as a result. Why ukip keep failing on this might partly be because they are a relatively new party with only one real big beast and it's difficult for one person to keep control of what is a diverse collection of members and supporters whose only real uniting factor appears to be hostility towards the 3 main parties, the EU and immigration.

In government there is the concept of "collective responsibility", whereby the cabinet has to agree on a line and follow it no matter what their personal view is. When these greatly contradict each other the person in question has to keep their mouth shut, or resign from the government out of principle, as we saw with, for example, Robin Cook over the Iraq war.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Seth On a pale blue dot 03 Dec 14 3.32pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 03 Dec 2014 1.23pm Quote Seth at 03 Dec 2014 11.55am Quote Pawson Palace at 03 Dec 2014 10.33am Having read through the entirety of the UKIP manifesto properly I do like some of the policies they are proposing. I am unaware at present as I haven't researched fully what other parties are also offering these but the ones that stand out to me: - Offering of apprenticeships at a school level - Offering guaranteed employment opportunities for ex military service men and women in border force etc. - Abolish any plans to charge to see GP - Preventing "health tourists" - Opposing sale of NHS data to 3rd parties - Support a diverse energy portfolio - improved food labelling - limit child benefit to the first 2 UK resident children - Scrap tolls on roads - Enforce a foreign road tax like the Swiss have - Exempt stamp duty from brown field sites - English MPs to vote on English matters - no vote for prisoners - review BBC license fee - free parking in high street to help local business Some of these really appeal to me in all honesty and I think it demonstrates they have given some thought outside of the who anti EU agenda. Some of their policies do sound attractive but the problem is that no sooner do they publish a policy than they end up having to backtrack on it because someone else says something contradictory (see my link above), or they disown the entire manifesto, like Farage did with their 2010 effort. It's still likely that they'll do well in May because of the public desire to give the big 3 a kicking, but having a coherent set of policies which they can all rally round and agree on still appears to be a bridge too far for them. Agreed I guess that is why Lib Dems got done because they always could afford to say whatever they wanted, suddenly got into government and then couldn't deliver. Yes it's easy to put together an attractive sounding wish list when you have no prospect of power and the LibDems have seen how this pans out when they ended up in government. We'll see in May whether ukip fall into the same hole, but my view is that if they find themselves in a coalition then as long as they get their way over an EU referendum and curbs on immigration then they will happily ditch the rest of their manifesto. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 03 Dec 14 3.32pm

Quote Pawson Palace at 03 Dec 2014 1.23pm

Quote Seth at 03 Dec 2014 11.55am

Quote Pawson Palace at 03 Dec 2014 10.33am

Some of these really appeal to me in all honesty and I think it demonstrates they have given some thought outside of the who anti EU agenda.

Agreed I guess that is why Lib Dems got done because they always could afford to say whatever they wanted, suddenly got into government and then couldn't deliver.

Yes it's easy to put together an attractive sounding wish list when you have no prospect of power and the LibDems have seen how this pans out when they ended up in government. We'll see in May whether ukip fall into the same hole, but my view is that if they find themselves in a coalition then as long as they get their way over an EU referendum and curbs on immigration then they will happily ditch the rest of their manifesto.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Dec 14 3.38pm
Quote matt_himself at 03 Dec 2014 2.45pm Quote Kermit8 at 03 Dec 2014 12.44pm Quote matt_himself at 03 Dec 2014 7.30am Seth gave the answer I thought he would. He doesn't have an answer. He is just full of hate for UKIP. And that my friends is the reason why the left is retreating. No ideas. No positivity. No vision. Just base scaremongering. Thanks Seth. You have validated my opinion of you with this. Ok. I would suggest, however, that rather than flinging back what is irrevelance when UKIP are put under scrutiny that we stick to the party in question as they are the ones that will be attracting a fair few votes and shaking up Westminster. Because, as it is, there is no leftist party in their enviable position so best we focus on Nigel et al, don't you think, rather than use distraction and muddying the waters. Basically I have asked what is the leftish alternative to UKIP on a thread about UKIP to someone who has spent most of the thread attempting to discredit UKIP. It isn't distraction. It is a valid point. What can the left offer as an alternative? The answer, is silence Probably the TUSC, The Green Party and Respect (regrettably, although it does have one MP with a long history, both of being a ct, and of winning seats in elections). Arguably of these, Respect is probably the closest analogy to UKIP. Its popularist, typically exploiting a communities fears and prejudices for electorial success and largely dependent on the oratory skills and popularity of its leader. The parallels between Galloway and Farange in their approach to politics shouldn't be underestimated, even if their political parties issues and policy are radically different. Both even have achieved MPs (arguably if Respect didn't have Galloway it might have more pulling power on the left wing). UKIP builds on the fear, concerns and prejudice of predominately white, working class and middle class, British people. Respect on British working class and middle class Muslims. Galloway might be a ct but he is one of the few politicians to actually listen (or at least pretend to listen) to concerns in the muslim community (in exactly the same way that UKIP have). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 03 Dec 14 3.38pm

Quote matt_himself at 03 Dec 2014 2.45pm

Quote Kermit8 at 03 Dec 2014 12.44pm

Quote matt_himself at 03 Dec 2014 7.30am

Seth gave the answer I thought he would.

He doesn't have an answer.

He is just full of hate for UKIP.

And that my friends is the reason why the left is retreating. No ideas. No positivity. No vision. Just base scaremongering.

Thanks Seth. You have validated my opinion of you with this.

Because, as it is, there is no leftist party in their enviable position so best we focus on Nigel et al, don't you think, rather than use distraction and muddying the waters.

Basically I have asked what is the leftish alternative to UKIP on a thread about UKIP to someone who has spent most of the thread attempting to discredit UKIP.

It isn't distraction. It is a valid point. What can the left offer as an alternative? The answer, is silence

Probably the TUSC, The Green Party and Respect (regrettably, although it does have one MP with a long history, both of being a c**t, and of winning seats in elections).

Arguably of these, Respect is probably the closest analogy to UKIP. Its popularist, typically exploiting a communities fears and prejudices for electorial success and largely dependent on the oratory skills and popularity of its leader.

The parallels between Galloway and Farange in their approach to politics shouldn't be underestimated, even if their political parties issues and policy are radically different.

Both even have achieved MPs (arguably if Respect didn't have Galloway it might have more pulling power on the left wing).

UKIP builds on the fear, concerns and prejudice of predominately white, working class and middle class, British people. Respect on British working class and middle class Muslims. Galloway might be a c**t but he is one of the few politicians to actually listen (or at least pretend to listen) to concerns in the muslim community (in exactly the same way that UKIP have).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Seth On a pale blue dot 04 Dec 14 4.10pm
Nigel Farage has described himself and his wife as "poor", with a combined income of £109,000 (plus expenses) and a £540,000 house: He once claimed his EU salary and expenses were worth £250,000 a year. His wife is also on the Brussels payroll, earning more than £30,000 a year. But Ukip’s leader, Nigel Farage, has now claimed the couple are “poor”. Mr Farage, who has been an MEP since 1999, initially described his role in the European Parliament as “a good job” after he was first elected. He claimed that if he had been working for Goldman Sachs he would need to earn £250,000 to match what the EU paid him because of taxation, secretarial allowances and “all the other games you could play”. [Link] "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 04 Dec 14 4.10pm

Nigel Farage has described himself and his wife as "poor", with a combined income of £109,000 (plus expenses) and a £540,000 house:

He once claimed his EU salary and expenses were worth £250,000 a year. His wife is also on the Brussels payroll, earning more than £30,000 a year. But Ukip’s leader, Nigel Farage, has now claimed the couple are “poor”.

Mr Farage, who has been an MEP since 1999, initially described his role in the European Parliament as “a good job” after he was first elected. He claimed that if he had been working for Goldman Sachs he would need to earn £250,000 to match what the EU paid him because of taxation, secretarial allowances and “all the other games you could play”.

[Link]

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Johnny Eagles berlin 05 Dec 14 12.35pm
Quote nickgusset at 02 Dec 2014 12.41pm So are those that support ukip of the opinion that immigration is to blame for the country's woes? Edited by nickgusset (02 Dec 2014 12.41pm) Partly our woes are the fault of immigrants. But mainly they're the fault of poor people and the unemployed. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 05 Dec 14 12.35pm

Quote nickgusset at 02 Dec 2014 12.41pm

So are those that support ukip of the opinion that immigration is to blame for the country's woes?

Edited by nickgusset (02 Dec 2014 12.41pm)

Partly our woes are the fault of immigrants.

But mainly they're the fault of poor people and the unemployed.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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serial thriller The Promised Land 05 Dec 14 12.39pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 Dec 2014 12.35pm Quote nickgusset at 02 Dec 2014 12.41pm So are those that support ukip of the opinion that immigration is to blame for the country's woes? Edited by nickgusset (02 Dec 2014 12.41pm) Partly our woes are the fault of immigrants. But mainly they're the fault of poor people and the unemployed. I think you forgot the disabled and women. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 05 Dec 14 12.39pm

Send a Private Message to serial thriller

Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 Dec 2014 12.35pm

Quote nickgusset at 02 Dec 2014 12.41pm

So are those that support ukip of the opinion that immigration is to blame for the country's woes?

Edited by nickgusset (02 Dec 2014 12.41pm)

Partly our woes are the fault of immigrants.

But mainly they're the fault of poor people and the unemployed.

I think you forgot the disabled and women.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Dec 14 1.31pm
Quote serial thriller at 05 Dec 2014 12.39pm Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 Dec 2014 12.35pm Quote nickgusset at 02 Dec 2014 12.41pm So are those that support ukip of the opinion that immigration is to blame for the country's woes? Edited by nickgusset (02 Dec 2014 12.41pm) Partly our woes are the fault of immigrants. But mainly they're the fault of poor people and the unemployed. I think you forgot the disabled and women. ..and the homeless. Everyone forgets about the homeless. That needs addressing. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 05 Dec 14 1.31pm

Quote serial thriller at 05 Dec 2014 12.39pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 Dec 2014 12.35pm

Quote nickgusset at 02 Dec 2014 12.41pm

So are those that support ukip of the opinion that immigration is to blame for the country's woes?

Edited by nickgusset (02 Dec 2014 12.41pm)

Partly our woes are the fault of immigrants.

But mainly they're the fault of poor people and the unemployed.

I think you forgot the disabled and women.

..and the homeless.

Everyone forgets about the homeless.

That needs addressing.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Johnny Eagles berlin 05 Dec 14 2.03pm
Quote Kermit8 at 05 Dec 2014 1.31pm Quote serial thriller at 05 Dec 2014 12.39pm Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 Dec 2014 12.35pm Quote nickgusset at 02 Dec 2014 12.41pm So are those that support ukip of the opinion that immigration is to blame for the country's woes? Edited by nickgusset (02 Dec 2014 12.41pm) Partly our woes are the fault of immigrants. But mainly they're the fault of poor people and the unemployed. I think you forgot the disabled and women. ..and the homeless. Everyone forgets about the homeless. That needs addressing. Maybe Russell Brand should start a campaign. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 05 Dec 14 2.03pm

Quote Kermit8 at 05 Dec 2014 1.31pm

Quote serial thriller at 05 Dec 2014 12.39pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 05 Dec 2014 12.35pm

Quote nickgusset at 02 Dec 2014 12.41pm

So are those that support ukip of the opinion that immigration is to blame for the country's woes?

Edited by nickgusset (02 Dec 2014 12.41pm)

Partly our woes are the fault of immigrants.

But mainly they're the fault of poor people and the unemployed.

I think you forgot the disabled and women.

..and the homeless.

Everyone forgets about the homeless.

That needs addressing.

Maybe Russell Brand should start a campaign.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Seth On a pale blue dot 05 Dec 14 3.58pm
I agree with Nige. Women who ostentatiously breastfeed their babies are the main problem and should be banished to a corner so as not to upset the older generation: Nigel Farage says breastfeeding women should sit in a corner [Link] "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 05 Dec 14 3.58pm

I agree with Nige. Women who ostentatiously breastfeed their babies are the main problem and should be banished to a corner so as not to upset the older generation:

Nigel Farage says breastfeeding women should sit in a corner

[Link]

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Stuk Top half 05 Dec 14 4.14pm
Quote Seth at 05 Dec 2014 3.58pm I agree with Nige. Women who ostentatiously breastfeed their babies are the main problem and should be banished to a corner so as not to upset the older generation: Nigel Farage says breastfeeding women should sit in a corner [Link] When did he say that? He didn't of course, he was asked his thoughts on it. It's better if you leave Farage to defend the slip ups he made, rather than inventing ones in trying to add fuel to the fire. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 05 Dec 14 4.14pm

Quote Seth at 05 Dec 2014 3.58pm

I agree with Nige. Women who ostentatiously breastfeed their babies are the main problem and should be banished to a corner so as not to upset the older generation:

Nigel Farage says breastfeeding women should sit in a corner

[Link]

When did he say that? He didn't of course, he was asked his thoughts on it.

It's better if you leave Farage to defend the slip ups he made, rather than inventing ones in trying to add fuel to the fire.

Optimistic as ever

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