Franca’s Opportunity??

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 14 Feb 24 2.11pm
Originally posted by A1969Eagle Reading these posts, observations. You can tell who was that match. You can who sat at home or in the pub. You can read who has an understanding of team playing and who is clueless, like wise for individual players. It seems those who used to pick on Ayew, need another target. At the match, you see the bigger picture. I was at 1st Matches (starting) for raw Zaha, Wright, Collymore, AWB, Bright to name a few. They all had starts like Franco, raw, giving there all. If you were at the match you see so much more and you aint for one listening to strange commentary! Franco wasn't frightened of trying to make a difference, and he did stretch Chelsea at times... they didnt know how to handle him. He has deceptive speed. We now have three players we jump to our feet when they have the ball.. Eze, Olise and now Franco!! So was I. Let's bear in mind the majority of those were learning their trade at a lower level. And I was at the match the other night. Franca has potential and if he can emulate the players you mention ( Stan away from Palace obviously ) playing for Palace, great. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 14 Feb 24 2.11pm

Originally posted by A1969Eagle

Reading these posts, observations.

You can tell who was that match.

You can who sat at home or in the pub.

You can read who has an understanding of team playing and who is clueless, like wise for individual players.

It seems those who used to pick on Ayew, need another target.

At the match, you see the bigger picture.

I was at 1st Matches (starting) for raw Zaha, Wright, Collymore, AWB, Bright to name a few. They all had starts like Franco, raw, giving there all.

If you were at the match you see so much more and you aint for one listening to strange commentary!

Franco wasn't frightened of trying to make a difference, and he did stretch Chelsea at times... they didnt know how to handle him.
He has deceptive speed.
We now have three players we jump to our feet when they have the ball.. Eze, Olise and now Franco!!

So was I. Let's bear in mind the majority of those were learning their trade at a lower level.

And I was at the match the other night.

Franca has potential and if he can emulate the players you mention ( Stan away from Palace obviously ) playing for Palace, great.

Old, Ungifted and White

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Feb 24 2.11pm
I think the issue here is about our league position. Were we to be comfortable and with a full squad available, I'm sure Franca would have been introduced slowly in what would be a confident environment. As it is, he is under unfair pressure to perform in a situation where getting points is far more important than developing young players. Right now, he is starting because other options are unavailable or not doing the business. He will either bloom or flounder under this sort of pressure, and will either be a new superstar or a decent squad player. He's shown enough to suggest that he has more to offer.
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 Feb 24 2.11pm

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I think the issue here is about our league position.

Were we to be comfortable and with a full squad available, I'm sure Franca would have been introduced slowly in what would be a confident environment.
As it is, he is under unfair pressure to perform in a situation where getting points is far more important than developing young players.

Right now, he is starting because other options are unavailable or not doing the business. He will either bloom or flounder under this sort of pressure, and will either be a new superstar or a decent squad player.
He's shown enough to suggest that he has more to offer.

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PatrickA London 14 Feb 24 2.12pm
We've had only two 1-0 wins all season, the second of which was nearly 6 months ago. If Roy is going for 1-0 wins he's failing miserably. We hardly ever keep a clean sheet so we have to find a goal in a game to even achieve a point. A front 3 of Ayew, Mateta and Schlupp together with a midfield that struggles to score is unlikely to trouble too many defences. I don't know whether Franca can be the panacea for our woes in front of goal, but anything that increases our creative potential is welcome to me. Originally posted by MrRobbo A lot of truth in this. For me the bottom line is Franca is not ready. Roy has been right not to trust him, all the while we are tight and looking for 1-0 wins. Without Olise and Eze we have next to zero attacking intent, so have to throw caution to the wind. And whilst horrible from a positional perspective, he did on occasion give them something to think about. My bigger worry would be the 'extensive' scouting DF put in to the deal, its clear that the boy is nowhere near ready. And worth nowhere near what we paid for him.
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PatrickA

London 14 Feb 24 2.12pm

We've had only two 1-0 wins all season, the second of which was nearly 6 months ago.
If Roy is going for 1-0 wins he's failing miserably.
We hardly ever keep a clean sheet so we have to find a goal in a game to even achieve a point.
A front 3 of Ayew, Mateta and Schlupp together with a midfield that struggles to score is unlikely to trouble too many defences.
I don't know whether Franca can be the panacea for our woes in front of goal, but anything that increases our creative potential is welcome to me.

Originally posted by MrRobbo

A lot of truth in this.

For me the bottom line is Franca is not ready. Roy has been right not to trust him, all the while we are tight and looking for 1-0 wins.

Without Olise and Eze we have next to zero attacking intent, so have to throw caution to the wind. And whilst horrible from a positional perspective, he did on occasion give them something to think about.

My bigger worry would be the 'extensive' scouting DF put in to the deal, its clear that the boy is nowhere near ready. And worth nowhere near what we paid for him.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 14 Feb 24 3.38pm
Originally posted by MrRobbo A lot of truth in this. For me the bottom line is Franca is not ready. Roy has been right not to trust him, all the while we are tight and looking for 1-0 wins. Without Olise and Eze we have next to zero attacking intent, so have to throw caution to the wind. And whilst horrible from a positional perspective, he did on occasion give them something to think about. My bigger worry would be the 'extensive' scouting DF put in to the deal, its clear that the boy is nowhere near ready. And worth nowhere near what we paid for him. I get a bit lost on this bit. For what it’s worth, I agree Franca doesn’t look ‘ready’ to regularly impact games at this level, but neither is Schlupp or half of the others he’s competing with. Roy made a decision that we are better off aiming for solidity rather than taking a punt on Franca - since then, we’ve been humped all over the place and failed to achieve anything close to ‘solidity’ - if we’ve given up any hope of creativity, and still failed to make ourselves solid, in what way can Roy be considered correct in his judgement? Both his decision, and the execution of it, have not gone remotely well We don’t know how it would have played out in recent months if Franca had more minutes, but we do know how it has played out when he hasn’t, and it couldn’t be much worse
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 14 Feb 24 3.38pm

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Originally posted by MrRobbo

A lot of truth in this.

For me the bottom line is Franca is not ready. Roy has been right not to trust him, all the while we are tight and looking for 1-0 wins.

My bigger worry would be the 'extensive' scouting DF put in to the deal, its clear that the boy is nowhere near ready. And worth nowhere near what we paid for him.

I get a bit lost on this bit.

For what it’s worth, I agree Franca doesn’t look ‘ready’ to regularly impact games at this level, but neither is Schlupp or half of the others he’s competing with.

Roy made a decision that we are better off aiming for solidity rather than taking a punt on Franca - since then, we’ve been humped all over the place and failed to achieve anything close to ‘solidity’ - if we’ve given up any hope of creativity, and still failed to make ourselves solid, in what way can Roy be considered correct in his judgement?

Both his decision, and the execution of it, have not gone remotely well

We don’t know how it would have played out in recent months if Franca had more minutes, but we do know how it has played out when he hasn’t, and it couldn’t be much worse

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 14 Feb 24 4.25pm
The talent is there with França, no doubt whatsoever. Skill on the ball, sharp short range passing, determination to win the ball. What's not there much now is fitness, composure and, of course, experience. But doesn't he just have something about him? A spark? Isn't that obvious? Sit him down, tell him he's great, and make him watch a video of his performance. He needs to improve his athleticism by multiples. He needs to see why being lazy is not possible. (I don't mean wilfully lazy, I mean mentally lazy due to his unfamiliarity with the league, and his lack of fitness). If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 14 Feb 24 4.25pm

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The talent is there with França, no doubt whatsoever. Skill on the ball, sharp short range passing, determination to win the ball. What's not there much now is fitness, composure and, of course, experience.

But doesn't he just have something about him? A spark? Isn't that obvious?

Sit him down, tell him he's great, and make him watch a video of his performance. He needs to improve his athleticism by multiples. He needs to see why being lazy is not possible.

(I don't mean wilfully lazy, I mean mentally lazy due to his unfamiliarity with the league, and his lack of fitness).

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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Palacesince64 Edinburgh 14 Feb 24 4.50pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig The talent is there with França, no doubt whatsoever. Skill on the ball, sharp short range passing, determination to win the ball. What's not there much now is fitness, composure and, of course, experience. But doesn't he just have something about him? A spark? Isn't that obvious? Sit him down, tell him he's great, and make him watch a video of his performance. He needs to improve his athleticism by multiples. He needs to see why being lazy is not possible. (I don't mean wilfully lazy, I mean mentally lazy due to his unfamiliarity with the league, and his lack of fitness). Spot on Ginger. The next few weeks will do wonders for his development and dare I say it having Roy and Ray coaching him on his defensive responsibilities will be no bad thing. If Roy can keep us in this league I’m optimistic about the future under a more tactically aware coach with Franca and the 2 new signings and less worried about the likely departure of Olise during the summer.
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Palacesince64

Edinburgh 14 Feb 24 4.50pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

But doesn't he just have something about him? A spark? Isn't that obvious?

Sit him down, tell him he's great, and make him watch a video of his performance. He needs to improve his athleticism by multiples. He needs to see why being lazy is not possible.

(I don't mean wilfully lazy, I mean mentally lazy due to his unfamiliarity with the league, and his lack of fitness).

Spot on Ginger. The next few weeks will do wonders for his development and dare I say it having Roy and Ray coaching him on his defensive responsibilities will be no bad thing. If Roy can keep us in this league I’m optimistic about the future under a more tactically aware coach with Franca and the 2 new signings and less worried about the likely departure of Olise during the summer.

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est1905 14 Feb 24 5.04pm
Originally posted by NEILLO Given your thoughts on Hodgson I think the question should be why did we buy Franca in the first place ? Also worth factoring in is that Franca came to us already carrying an injury which delayed his availability until October - so not the start of the season. He's not had the opportunity to be six months into playing at this level. Hodgson's job is to win football matches. That's his first priority, not player development. His methodology is well known. If he perceives there to be a risk in starting Franca then he's obviously not going to take it. Hodgson's almost been forced into selecting him now, and I really hope Franca comes to be as good as we all hope he will be. Let's also hope that Palace stay up and that with the benefit of a proper pre season under his belt, Franca makes real progress next season. Agree on all counts. I just dont understand how some people cant see that if the staff dont think he is ready that he should be playing regardless because 'he'll never improve unless he plays'. Surely thats what the U21s are for and he has hardly caught fire playing for them! He has his chance now because there are no other choices. I really hope he improves and starts to stake a permanent claim for a place in the team. Either that or we get Eze back very soon!
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est1905

14 Feb 24 5.04pm

Originally posted by NEILLO

Given your thoughts on Hodgson I think the question should be why did we buy Franca in the first place ?

Also worth factoring in is that Franca came to us already carrying an injury which delayed his availability until October - so not the start of the season. He's not had the opportunity to be six months into playing at this level.

Hodgson's job is to win football matches. That's his first priority, not player development. His methodology is well known. If he perceives there to be a risk in starting Franca then he's obviously not going to take it.

Hodgson's almost been forced into selecting him now, and I really hope Franca comes to be as good as we all hope he will be.

Let's also hope that Palace stay up and that with the benefit of a proper pre season under his belt, Franca makes real progress next season.

Agree on all counts. I just dont understand how some people cant see that if the staff dont think he is ready that he should be playing regardless because 'he'll never improve unless he plays'. Surely thats what the U21s are for and he has hardly caught fire playing for them!
He has his chance now because there are no other choices. I really hope he improves and starts to stake a permanent claim for a place in the team. Either that or we get Eze back very soon!

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est1905 14 Feb 24 5.11pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I think the issue here is about our league position. Were we to be comfortable and with a full squad available, I'm sure Franca would have been introduced slowly in what would be a confident environment. As it is, he is under unfair pressure to perform in a situation where getting points is far more important than developing young players. Right now, he is starting because other options are unavailable or not doing the business. He will either bloom or flounder under this sort of pressure, and will either be a new superstar or a decent squad player. He's shown enough to suggest that he has more to offer. 100%. I have argued the same when people hold up De Zerbi and Brighton as an example. Its much easier and far less of a risk to blood and persevere with young players when you are in top 8 territory. No hope of a relegation battle, little hope of the top 4. So why not? Our situation on the other hand is while not desperate I'd definitely say too serious to take unnecessary risks. Saying that it does look like the injury list has forced Roy's hand so I'm hoping Franca really improves quickly and kicks on.
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est1905

14 Feb 24 5.11pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think the issue here is about our league position.

Were we to be comfortable and with a full squad available, I'm sure Franca would have been introduced slowly in what would be a confident environment.
As it is, he is under unfair pressure to perform in a situation where getting points is far more important than developing young players.

100%. I have argued the same when people hold up De Zerbi and Brighton as an example. Its much easier and far less of a risk to blood and persevere with young players when you are in top 8 territory. No hope of a relegation battle, little hope of the top 4. So why not? Our situation on the other hand is while not desperate I'd definitely say too serious to take unnecessary risks.
Saying that it does look like the injury list has forced Roy's hand so I'm hoping Franca really improves quickly and kicks on.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 14 Feb 24 5.23pm
Originally posted by est1905 100%. I have argued the same when people hold up De Zerbi and Brighton as an example. Its much easier and far less of a risk to blood and persevere with young players when you are in top 8 territory. No hope of a relegation battle, little hope of the top 4. So why not? Our situation on the other hand is while not desperate I'd definitely say too serious to take unnecessary risks. Saying that it does look like the injury list has forced Roy's hand so I'm hoping Franca really improves quickly and kicks on. It’s chicken and egg though right - you can argue Brighton are in top 8 territory exactly because they have been willing to take risks, particularly on young players and indeed managers. That’s not something they’ve just started this season, and their league position has been comparable to ours for most of the last few years. If Hinshelwood was in our academy for example, I’d be fairly confident he wouldn’t have played a minute under Roy. Even circumstances considered, this was absolutely the perfect season for a club like ours to take risks and try to develop young players - there’s 3 really weak promoted sides and now points deductions to others… you’re never going to get more of a free hit at staying up, and we’re still having a good go at ballsing that up. I’d also point out that before this weekend, we were the ONLY team in the division not to give a start to a young player, so it’s not just those sitting in comfort who are doing it more than us… it’s quite literally everyone in the league.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 14 Feb 24 5.23pm

Originally posted by est1905

It’s chicken and egg though right - you can argue Brighton are in top 8 territory exactly because they have been willing to take risks, particularly on young players and indeed managers. That’s not something they’ve just started this season, and their league position has been comparable to ours for most of the last few years.

If Hinshelwood was in our academy for example, I’d be fairly confident he wouldn’t have played a minute under Roy.

Even circumstances considered, this was absolutely the perfect season for a club like ours to take risks and try to develop young players - there’s 3 really weak promoted sides and now points deductions to others… you’re never going to get more of a free hit at staying up, and we’re still having a good go at ballsing that up.

I’d also point out that before this weekend, we were the ONLY team in the division not to give a start to a young player, so it’s not just those sitting in comfort who are doing it more than us… it’s quite literally everyone in the league.

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Eaglecoops CR3 14 Feb 24 6.18pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow It’s chicken and egg though right - you can argue Brighton are in top 8 territory exactly because they have been willing to take risks, particularly on young players and indeed managers. That’s not something they’ve just started this season, and their league position has been comparable to ours for most of the last few years. If Hinshelwood was in our academy for example, I’d be fairly confident he wouldn’t have played a minute under Roy. Even circumstances considered, this was absolutely the perfect season for a club like ours to take risks and try to develop young players - there’s 3 really weak promoted sides and now points deductions to others… you’re never going to get more of a free hit at staying up, and we’re still having a good go at ballsing that up. I’d also point out that before this weekend, we were the ONLY team in the division not to give a start to a young player, so it’s not just those sitting in comfort who are doing it more than us… it’s quite literally everyone in the league. There are decent arguments in both directions, but it’s a bit Hobdgson’s choice at the moment, so this is likely to be their opportunity to at least justify being given 60-70 minutes.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 14 Feb 24 6.18pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

If Hinshelwood was in our academy for example, I’d be fairly confident he wouldn’t have played a minute under Roy.

There are decent arguments in both directions, but it’s a bit Hobdgson’s choice at the moment, so this is likely to be their opportunity to at least justify being given 60-70 minutes.

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Rachid Rachid Rachid 14 Feb 24 7.28pm
Originally posted by palace99 for accuracy Olise arrived injured so was slowly introduced to the team from the bench from Sept onwards. He scored quite early into his Palace career as a sub v Leicester and also had a hand in a couple of goals. In October he was given his 1st start v Newcastle, before he went back onto the bench. He was a regular starter from Jan onwards, after his impressive performance v Millwall. Comparing Olise and Franca is a little unfair however if you do, Olise's impact was clearly greater. I was at the Spurs game when Olise made his debut in the last five mins and at Anfield the following week when he got a little longer and was struck at that game at how polished and unfazed he looked the first few times he received the ball. I agree there's no comparison IMO. Franca must have shown something on the training ground to be entrusted with free kicks and corners when he was subbed on against Spurs earlier this season and had a bit of a nightmare. His pace will hopefully be an asset for the remainder of the season. This is a season too far for Schlupp and Ayew IMO and I would definitely put him in ahead of the former but I don't think Roy has missed some big trick by not playing him or any of the other younger players. Ahamada didn't look good enough again the other night IMO.
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Rachid Rachid Rachid

14 Feb 24 7.28pm

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Originally posted by palace99

for accuracy Olise arrived injured so was slowly introduced to the team from the bench from Sept onwards. He scored quite early into his Palace career as a sub v Leicester and also had a hand in a couple of goals. In October he was given his 1st start v Newcastle, before he went back onto the bench. He was a regular starter from Jan onwards, after his impressive performance v Millwall.

Comparing Olise and Franca is a little unfair however if you do, Olise's impact was clearly greater.

I was at the Spurs game when Olise made his debut in the last five mins and at Anfield the following week when he got a little longer and was struck at that game at how polished and unfazed he looked the first few times he received the ball. I agree there's no comparison IMO.

Franca must have shown something on the training ground to be entrusted with free kicks and corners when he was subbed on against Spurs earlier this season and had a bit of a nightmare.
His pace will hopefully be an asset for the remainder of the season.

This is a season too far for Schlupp and Ayew IMO and I would definitely put him in ahead of the former but I don't think Roy has missed some big trick by not playing him or any of the other younger players. Ahamada didn't look good enough again the other night IMO.

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uncleneal Croydon 14 Feb 24 8.37pm
Amazing how opinions differ! Personally, I don’t understand the summer £40m spend but that has gone. I thought he showed some promise the other night and gives us an outlet. Defending with no intent rarely works for us so let’s give the other team something to think about. Yes - he lost it a few times but he looks a footballer to me in terms of confidence, control and passing. Wharton gets a lot of praise yet CG was unmarked in our box both times. Franca went off at 1-1. Every goal can be criticised- Cech thought their goalie should have saved ours! Anyway, we have little choice other than to give him a chance - I am sure we will play easier teams and he will of course, improve. Wharton, lerma, Olise, Eze and Franca looks pretty tasty to me!
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uncleneal

Croydon 14 Feb 24 8.37pm

Amazing how opinions differ!

Personally, I don’t understand the summer £40m spend but that has gone.

I thought he showed some promise the other night and gives us an outlet. Defending with no intent rarely works for us so let’s give the other team something to think about.

Yes - he lost it a few times but he looks a footballer to me in terms of confidence, control and passing.

Wharton gets a lot of praise yet CG was unmarked in our box both times. Franca went off at 1-1. Every goal can be criticised- Cech thought their goalie should have saved ours!

Anyway, we have little choice other than to give him a chance - I am sure we will play easier teams and he will of course, improve.

Wharton, lerma, Olise, Eze and Franca looks pretty tasty to me!

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