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Originally posted by Willo
Rest assured you are not alone, there is total confusion about the whole VAR process. Apropos "Clear and obvious", this is a subjective decision and subjectivity leads to inconsistency and confusion and indeed frustation. Regards 'Offsides' we are reminded that this is an issue of FACT but we have witnessed incidents where the protocol in terms of the drawing of lines has not been followed due to human error.Furthermore "Subjective offsides" have added a further layer of complexity. Indeed any "Infringement" being too far back in the build-up to a goal can be subjective and I suspect supporters and pundits etc etc are totally unclear as to this aspect of the VAR protocol as they are about 'Handball'. Alas, the debate and discussion is now centred on VAR and not the actual game. Finally I welcome the comments of Ange Postecoglu which were in stark contrast to the outburst from Arteta who behaved akin to a petulant child. Edited by Willo (07 Nov 2023 8.07am) All true Willo. The whole situation seems to be getting worse rather than better as those responsible try to be more accurate and take longer and longer.
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I heard some chap opine that VAR was supposed to be a "Safety Net" for the officials but the value it has added to the game as a spectacle is "Net zero".
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Last night's game was feisty enough without the VAR involvement - which added to the ill temper. VAR is spoiling a good match. From my weary old point of view I so much preferred watching football pre VAR. It's not that I was always anti, I hung on to justification that it would eliminate refereeing inconsistencies. It's become a laughing stock. I read I the paper this morning a quote by Pochettino which I thought sums up the issue perfectly: "I trust in VAR. I trust in the car - but not the driver. That's the problem." Very well put Mauricio. Howard Webb is supposed to be sorting it out, but what surprises me is that there isn't a much louder voice of opposition coming from within the game. Willo is quite right when he wrote that watching a game officiated by a mere referee is far more enjoyable.
Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled. |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
I like the suggestion that teams have a set number of challenges, as with cricket, which they retain if upheld rather than VAR being automatically involved in offsides. I hate that idea . Would lead to poor decisions at the end of games when teams have run out of 'challenges '. Sounds like more chaos to me . VAR could still have its use ,when and only when the referee decides he needs help ,if he is not sure on something he can ask VAR for clarification . Not what we had last night at Spurs where VAR was basically refereeing the match .
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I foresee a situation (Long after I have met my maker) when the game will be controlled purely by technology with a referee NOT making any decisions himself but merely acting on what he is being informed. Computer says 'Red card', referee is informed to thrust one in the direction of the offender !
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Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer
Last night's game was feisty enough without the VAR involvement - which added to the ill temper. VAR is spoiling a good match. From my weary old point of view I so much preferred watching football pre VAR. It's not that I was always anti, I hung on to justification that it would eliminate refereeing inconsistencies. It's become a laughing stock. I read I the paper this morning a quote by Pochettino which I thought sums up the issue perfectly: "I trust in VAR. I trust in the car - but not the driver. That's the problem." Very well put Mauricio. Howard Webb is supposed to be sorting it out, but what surprises me is that there isn't a much louder voice of opposition coming from within the game. Willo is quite right when he wrote that watching a game officiated by a mere referee is far more enjoyable. Agree with all of that. I've not heard it said much but I took real umbrage at the phrase 'clear and obvious error' which was introduced with VAR and has been used frequently. Something's either an error or not on a football pitch. It's a penalty or it is not, it's offside or it is not, it's handball or it is not. If these aren't given, it's clearly and obviously an error. How they thought this would appease the emotional hotbed of football supporters I have no idea, it's f**king stupid to introduce such a caveat in a process which has technology to determine and evaluate decisions to the nth degree. They've also tinkered with the rules so much it has created a ludicrous ambiguity around decision making, to the extent I'd even forgive officials for not being sure. All of this has only worsened the conditions for the officials, taken a lot of the 'buzz' out of the game and further infuriated already angry fans. I'd love to know the combined salaries of all those involved in the decision making processes here. The amount of money that must have gone in, or been paid to people, to come up with such a fault ridden implementation of a system is shocking.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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Originally posted by Elpis
I hate that idea . Would lead to poor decisions at the end of games when teams have run out of 'challenges '. Sounds like more chaos to me . VAR could still have its use ,when and only when the referee decides he needs help ,if he is not sure on something he can ask VAR for clarification . Not what we had last night at Spurs where VAR was basically refereeing the match . The issue for me over VAR is the border line decisions. It's supposed to be about clear and obvious errors not measuring to the nearest cm. If they are going to rule a goal offside because of someone's toe then I think they need to change the offside rule. It can be done in a number of ways but simply put the offside should be clear and obvious. If they did that a lot of the fuss would die away. Edited by Badger11 (07 Nov 2023 9.39am)
One more point |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The issue for me over VAR is the border line decisions. It's supposed to be about clear and obvious errors not measuring to the nearest cm. If they are going to rule a goal offside because of someone's toe then I think they need to change the offside rule. It can be done in a number of ways but simply put the offside should be clear and obvious. If they did that a lot of the fuss would die away. Edited by Badger11 (07 Nov 2023 9.39am) I suspect there will be those who will be considering whether the introduction of VAR was a "Clear and obvious error".
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Originally posted by Willo
On-field decision was no foul and I support the decision of the VAR who reviewed the incident in detail. With respect the "Most observers" comment is a generalisation, most certainly those that I have spoken to have agreed with the VAR.The referee deemed the incident physical contact and I for one agree with his judgement. Edited by Willo (06 Nov 2023 6.44pm)
Going back to my previous post though the ref gave the goal which is good enough for me .Just wish that was always the case .
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Originally posted by Elpis
Wolves were robbed , the Sheff utd player just stuck his leg into the defender and fell over . Having watched the highlights, something is worrying me. The ref gave the penalty, but after the fouled player had got back up and headed towards goal. If VAR had said no penalty how would the game of restarted, would the Sheffield player get the ball back with a free run at goal??
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Originally posted by Elpis
Going back to my previous post though the ref gave the goal which is good enough for me .Just wish that was always the case . My view echoes that of Gary Neville.From my perspective Gabriel stooped forward to try and clear the ball rather than be pushed by Joelinton. I accept that others have concluded otherwise including an erstwhile PL referee I was in conversation with relating to this incident. Edited by Willo (07 Nov 2023 1.10pm)
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