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Gareth Thomas Documentary – Alfie v Homophobia – T

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Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jul 17 10.20am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Aray

So you can't quote anything I've said and then "claim" I complained about freedom of speech! You really are simple then.

Apparently you need me to quote your own comments.

You gave general examples of posters giving views you don't like and then saying there must have been something to ban and ended it with 'People get away with murder on this board'. '

How is that not complaining about freedom of speech?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jul 17 10.32am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I am saying minorities need protecting from attack, physical or oral. What constitutes an attack is a grey area and needs constant review. We don't live under Napoleonic law so can't and shouldn't legislate for it.

After WW2 many people regretted the lack of an earlier challenge to the Nazi philosophy which should have been strangled off at a certain point. Nobody really knows how or when.

If what you mean is that there should be different rules for how different groups are 'protected' then I disagree with you.

No special cases for anybody.

I'm not sure referring to Nazis is appropriate in this case.

Antisemitism was far more prevalent throughout society for several reasons, mostly religious early last century. The Nazis didn't come to power because of their views against jews. It was about a strong man promising food and work amid a country broken to pieces with people starving in the streets.


 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Aray Flag South London 30 Jul 17 10.44am Send a Private Message to Aray Add Aray as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Apparently you need me to quote your own comments.

You gave general examples of posters giving views you don't like and then saying there must have been something to ban and ended it with 'People get away with murder on this board'. '

How is that not complaining about freedom of speech?

My request for you to quote me was so that I could clear up the confusion that is in your head. You really should be able to tell the difference between my description of events and my non-complaint on what was said. There is a, not so subtle, difference.

Now to be clear, the reason why that is not me complaining should be obvious because of the context that the previous sentence provides.

So let me say this again - in simple terms. I was saying that they must've said something to have the mods ban them (because there is a lot worse said on this site at times).

For the record. I took part in that thread and had a debate. No toys were thrown by me, nor complaints made about differing opinions. It's a shame they've been banned but they said some dumbass things and if you break the rules of the club...

Got it?

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jul 17 10.55am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Aray

My request for you to quote me was so that I could clear up the confusion that is in your head. You really should be able to tell the difference between my description of events and my non-complaint on what was said. There is a, not so subtle, difference.

Now to be clear, the reason why that is not me complaining should be obvious because of the context that the previous sentence provides.

So let me say this again - in simple terms. I was saying that they must've said something to have the mods ban them (because there is a lot worse said on this site at times).

For the record. I took part in that thread and had a debate. No toys were thrown by me, nor complaints made about differing opinions. It's a shame they've been banned but they said some dumbass things and if you break the rules of the club...

Got it?

I get that you are waffling yes.

I know what, 'people get away with murder on these boards' means. Still, you have your right to reply and that's how it should be.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 30 Jul 17 11.13am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If what you mean is that there should be different rules for how different groups are 'protected' then I disagree with you.

No special cases for anybody.

I'm not sure referring to Nazis is appropriate in this case.

Antisemitism was far more prevalent throughout society for several reasons, mostly religious early last century. The Nazis didn't come to power because of their views against jews. It was about a strong man promising food and work amid a country broken to pieces with people starving in the streets.


Now it is you that is willfully twisting a post.

The Nazi philosophy was clearly based on racial hierarchy.

And yes, the majority need to protect minorities. It is the ble*din obvious innit.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jul 17 11.49am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Now it is you that is willfully twisting a post.

The Nazi philosophy was clearly based on racial hierarchy.

And yes, the majority need to protect minorities. It is the ble*din obvious innit.

'willfully twisting a post'? You brought up Nazis and how freedom of speech should be observed in some way or other to stop some kind of repeat. I'm not trying to twist anything. I just think the point is inappropriate to the subject at hand, that's all.

It's definitely true that racial hierarchy was a part of Nazi philosophy.... but the Nazis came to power...just...mostly because they offered a solution to poverty not because free speech had somehow gotten out of hand.

I disagree that minorities need to be protected over rules for everyone. I think that's precisely why we are currently now so divided with PC culture now.

Everybody should be treated the same under the law. This dividing into 'majority' and 'minority' is problematical. It suggests that people can be treated differently because of blah blah blah.
Orwell warned about the 'some are more equal than others' mindset decades ago.

If some group is being treated unfairly within society then that is breaking rules that should apply to everybody.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Aray Flag South London 30 Jul 17 12.06pm Send a Private Message to Aray Add Aray as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I get that you are waffling yes.

I know what, 'people get away with murder on these boards' means. Still, you have your right to reply and that's how it should be.

So when someone spells out what they mean in order for you to comprehend it's called waffling? Hahaha.

Selective hearing or reading - taking what I said outside of its context is as "outrageous" as it comes. Ironic considering eh

 

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 30 Jul 17 12.52pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

'willfully twisting a post'? You brought up Nazis and how freedom of speech should be observed in some way or other to stop some kind of repeat. I'm not trying to twist anything. I just think the point is inappropriate to the subject at hand, that's all.

It's definitely true that racial hierarchy was a part of Nazi philosophy.... but the Nazis came to power...just...mostly because they offered a solution to poverty not because free speech had somehow gotten out of hand.

I disagree that minorities need to be protected over rules for everyone. I think that's precisely why we are currently now so divided with PC culture now.

Everybody should be treated the same under the law. This dividing into 'majority' and 'minority' is problematical. It suggests that people can be treated differently because of blah blah blah.
Orwell warned about the 'some are more equal than others' mindset decades ago.

If some group is being treated unfairly within society then that is breaking rules that should apply to everybody.

Presumably you have a problem with equal opportunities legislation then. Silly international governments, what do they know eh?

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jul 17 1.12pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Presumably you have a problem with equal opportunities legislation then. Silly international governments, what do they know eh?

Like Orwell warned, 'some are more equal than others'. I don't agree with laws against meritocracy. But I do agree with equal opportunities where it makes sense. It's a delicate balance from my perspective but I don't believe that balance exists. Instead we have identity polices, quotas and victim culture.

As for 'international governments'.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wilesy01 Flag Bristol 30 Jul 17 3.37pm Send a Private Message to Wilesy01 Add Wilesy01 as a friend

Just watched the documentary on iplayer and thought GT did a reasonable job at assessing homophobia in British football. Sadly it didn't teach me anything new in regards to how hopeless professional bodies in the domestic game are at tackling important issues. His interview with the "equalities director" at the PFA was perhaps the most frustrating - a person with 17 years experience in the field yet had no ideas or strategies on how to protect gay players from abuse. What's more apparently "big strides" had been taken to alleviate homophobia, even though there still isn't one openly gay player in the EPL or football league!!

In regards to the hol I admit to being slightly embarrassed. I glanced at the GT thread a few weeks back and noticed some offensive posts but these were indeed outbalanced by fans uncomfortable with the idiotic chanting we make when we play Brighton. Those banned who made these vile statements deserve the bans given whether it was made then or now, surely we can differentiate between freedom of speech and bigotry?

As a final point what about the global game and homophobia? There's a World Cup in Russia next year where (correct me if I'm wrong) being gay is a crime. What sort of message does that give about football and equality? Not to mention the issues they also have with racism in their domestic league. It beggars belief.

 

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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 30 Jul 17 3.53pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by Wilesy01

Just watched the documentary on iplayer and thought GT did a reasonable job at assessing homophobia in British football. Sadly it didn't teach me anything new in regards to how hopeless professional bodies in the domestic game are at tackling important issues. His interview with the "equalities director" at the PFA was perhaps the most frustrating - a person with 17 years experience in the field yet had no ideas or strategies on how to protect gay players from abuse. What's more apparently "big strides" had been taken to alleviate homophobia, even though there still isn't one openly gay player in the EPL or football league!!

In regards to the hol I admit to being slightly embarrassed. I glanced at the GT thread a few weeks back and noticed some offensive posts but these were indeed outbalanced by fans uncomfortable with the idiotic chanting we make when we play Brighton. Those banned who made these vile statements deserve the bans given whether it was made then or now, surely we can differentiate between freedom of speech and bigotry?

As a final point what about the global game and homophobia? There's a World Cup in Russia next year where (correct me if I'm wrong) being gay is a crime. What sort of message does that give about football and equality? Not to mention the issues they also have with racism in their domestic league. It beggars belief.

Of course but then it shouldnt mean that if someone has views that we dont like that the way they should he addressed is to silence them by banning them...thats just a juvenile way to address the issue...rather than debate it..as we're doing here.

People are entitled to their views...we become as blinkered as they are if we think censorship is the way to deal with it.

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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becky Flag over the moon 30 Jul 17 4.13pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Has anyone ever considered that there may be no openly gay footballers in the Premier league because, well...... non of them are actually gay?

Or maybe if they are gay they don't considerate anyone else's business?

Statistically, there should be a number of gay players, but statistics are no more than that - average expected figures.

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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