London town block fire

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London town block fire

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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Jun 17 2.45pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I'm sorry if painting people who are constantly vilified and hated in a positive light offends you. You recently posted that you don't care about refugees drowning in the med. Are there any deaths yesterday that don't bother you? I think you will find it is the insanely backward aspects of the religion that grates rather than 'people'. And the fact that we now have Islamic terrorists in our midst. Hardly an unreasonable concern is it Joseph.
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Hrolf The Ganger

15 Jun 17 2.45pm

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Originally posted by nickgusset

I'm sorry if painting people who are constantly vilified and hated in a positive light offends you.

You recently posted that you don't care about refugees drowning in the med. Are there any deaths yesterday that don't bother you?

I think you will find it is the insanely backward aspects of the religion that grates rather than 'people'. And the fact that we now have Islamic terrorists in our midst.

Hardly an unreasonable concern is it Joseph.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Jun 17 3.02pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I haven't been praising people for doing their job, though I have little problem with those that do. I do think it's important to view jobs that have danger attached to them as extremely important and culturally significant. For them not to be pushed would probably result in less people doing them which is far worse for society. Personally I look up to a family that has an honoured soldier in it or say paramedic as more useful for society than say a banker...who may have paid more tax but...whose job description has an element of ripping people off somewhere down the line. The emergency services are not a 'group' in the same sense of Christians and Muslims or any other non paid conviction groups so I think that when you compare these two ideas you are stretching it quite a bit. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 2.39pm) I don't see any harm in point good news in society when people do good things, even if its expected of them. What I don't really like is the patronising way people tend to do it i.e. to score a cheap anti-Islamophobia stance, in the same way that s**ty tabloids demonise Muslims. Christians, are better off out of it. You don't get the glory when you do the right thing, but then again people don't point out your religion when you do the wrong thing either. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Jun 17 3.02pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I haven't been praising people for doing their job, though I have little problem with those that do.

I do think it's important to view jobs that have danger attached to them as extremely important and culturally significant.

For them not to be pushed would probably result in less people doing them which is far worse for society. Personally I look up to a family that has an honoured soldier in it or say paramedic as more useful for society than say a banker...who may have paid more tax but...whose job description has an element of ripping people off somewhere down the line.

The emergency services are not a 'group' in the same sense of Christians and Muslims or any other non paid conviction groups so I think that when you compare these two ideas you are stretching it quite a bit.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 2.39pm)

I don't see any harm in point good news in society when people do good things, even if its expected of them. What I don't really like is the patronising way people tend to do it i.e. to score a cheap anti-Islamophobia stance, in the same way that s**ty tabloids demonise Muslims.

Christians, are better off out of it. You don't get the glory when you do the right thing, but then again people don't point out your religion when you do the wrong thing either.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Jun 17 3.04pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I think you will find it is the insanely backward aspects of the religion that grates rather than 'people'. And the fact that we now have Islamic terrorists in our midst. Hardly an unreasonable concern is it Joseph. Technically its Islamist terrorists. Islamic refers to being Muslim, where as Islamist refers to the politicised Islamic groups and movements like IS, Hamas or Iran etc. You can be Islamic without being Islamist. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Jun 17 3.04pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think you will find it is the insanely backward aspects of the religion that grates rather than 'people'. And the fact that we now have Islamic terrorists in our midst.

Hardly an unreasonable concern is it Joseph.

Technically its Islamist terrorists. Islamic refers to being Muslim, where as Islamist refers to the politicised Islamic groups and movements like IS, Hamas or Iran etc.

You can be Islamic without being Islamist.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 15 Jun 17 3.19pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 I don't see any harm in point good news in society when people do good things, even if its expected of them. What I don't really like is the patronising way people tend to do it i.e. to score a cheap anti-Islamophobia stance, in the same way that s**ty tabloids demonise Muslims. Christians, are better off out of it. You don't get the glory when you do the right thing, but then again people don't point out your religion when you do the wrong thing either. It's unfortunate that activists seek to bring Islam into an event that holds no connection to it. A person who seeks no harm to others should never feel an association to those that do just because they share the same skin colour or religion. I'm an secular humanist....there will be plenty of other people who would call themselves that who will go and do things I could never support. Having said that this doesn't mean that criticisms of the mainstream Islam that we have in this country aren't justified. I follow quite a few Islamic reformers and I'm convinced that ultimately their general direction is the only path that will work. The lack of action on it frustrates me.....Instead we get wallies like Andy Burnham attacking 'prevent'. I'm not for singing 'imagine' every time extremists destroy lives. I also understand that strict socially conservative attitudes that reject integration directly feed these areas. Nawaz fears for his life but does his work anyway....We need thousands more like him. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 3.22pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jun 17 3.19pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Christians, are better off out of it. You don't get the glory when you do the right thing, but then again people don't point out your religion when you do the wrong thing either.

It's unfortunate that activists seek to bring Islam into an event that holds no connection to it.

A person who seeks no harm to others should never feel an association to those that do just because they share the same skin colour or religion.

I'm an secular humanist....there will be plenty of other people who would call themselves that who will go and do things I could never support.

Having said that this doesn't mean that criticisms of the mainstream Islam that we have in this country aren't justified. I follow quite a few Islamic reformers and I'm convinced that ultimately their general direction is the only path that will work. The lack of action on it frustrates me.....Instead we get wallies like Andy Burnham attacking 'prevent'.

I'm not for singing 'imagine' every time extremists destroy lives. I also understand that strict socially conservative attitudes that reject integration directly feed these areas.

Nawaz fears for his life but does his work anyway....We need thousands more like him.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 3.22pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 15 Jun 17 3.23pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Costs don't work like that. When a government or council takes responsibility for something like smoke alarms, it also has to take responsibility for buying them, fitting them, maintaining them, verifying their operational acceptance, their replacement. They also have to be up to certain standards and requirements. I knew a guy who worked at a massive car park as an attendant. The first half of his shift was going through the car park recording whether each bulb was working or needed to be replaced, because there was a legal obligation on the car parks owners to provide a reasonable level of illumination at night to deter crime and risks of injury. So whilst you and I can just buy a smoke alarm, and accept responsibility directly on ourselves for buying a s**t one, that option doesn't exist for Public or Private companies - who will be held accountable for failures. So if a smoke alarm isn't working, there would be an expectation for it to be replaced promptly (as fires have a high threat to life), and the only way you can reasonably do that, is to check them on a regular basis or connect them up to a network system that reports failure. Of course the latter is better, but then that system has to be sourced, installed, maintained.... Of course the person who checks them, needs to be qualified to a specific level of technical competence, and someone has to cover for him when he's on holiday or sick.. and so on. The same applies to a private contractor, except if they're dodgy they can circumvent some of these issues and they're less accountable to the people than politicians (but not much), meaning they could probably hire a lower skilled worker, and buy insurance. Where as council or government worker failures that result in deaths always result in new legislation from the outrage... and that adds more cost to your smoke alarm system. interesting read jamie, but i would rather a cheap battery fed smoke alarm had been on every floor of that tower the other night than the alternative, nothing,,just one working on alternative,,nothing,,,just one working on one of the 24 floors could have saved many lives!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 15 Jun 17 3.23pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Costs don't work like that.

When a government or council takes responsibility for something like smoke alarms, it also has to take responsibility for buying them, fitting them, maintaining them, verifying their operational acceptance, their replacement. They also have to be up to certain standards and requirements.

I knew a guy who worked at a massive car park as an attendant. The first half of his shift was going through the car park recording whether each bulb was working or needed to be replaced, because there was a legal obligation on the car parks owners to provide a reasonable level of illumination at night to deter crime and risks of injury.

So whilst you and I can just buy a smoke alarm, and accept responsibility directly on ourselves for buying a s**t one, that option doesn't exist for Public or Private companies - who will be held accountable for failures.

So if a smoke alarm isn't working, there would be an expectation for it to be replaced promptly (as fires have a high threat to life), and the only way you can reasonably do that, is to check them on a regular basis or connect them up to a network system that reports failure. Of course the latter is better, but then that system has to be sourced, installed, maintained....

Of course the person who checks them, needs to be qualified to a specific level of technical competence, and someone has to cover for him when he's on holiday or sick.. and so on.

The same applies to a private contractor, except if they're dodgy they can circumvent some of these issues and they're less accountable to the people than politicians (but not much), meaning they could probably hire a lower skilled worker, and buy insurance. Where as council or government worker failures that result in deaths always result in new legislation from the outrage... and that adds more cost to your smoke alarm system.

interesting read jamie, but i would rather a cheap battery fed smoke alarm had been on every floor of that tower the other night than the alternative, nothing,,just one working on alternative,,nothing,,,just one working on one of the 24 floors could have saved many lives!

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 15 Jun 17 3.26pm
It's emerging that Emma Coad, the newly elected MP for Kensington & Chelsea is on the board of the management company that the residents complained to. That could be a tad embarrassing to spin away. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 15 Jun 17 3.26pm

It's emerging that Emma Coad, the newly elected MP for Kensington & Chelsea is on the board of the management company that the residents complained to.

That could be a tad embarrassing to spin away.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Stirlingsays 15 Jun 17 3.28pm
Originally posted by croydon proud interesting read jamie, but i would rather a cheap battery fed smoke alarm had been on every floor of that tower the other night than the alternative, nothing,,just one working on alternative,,nothing,,,just one working on one of the 24 floors could have saved many lives! Probably not for the top floors as much. Sprinklers also have to happen in my view.....problem is ensuring that it can't be vandalized and so on. Still I think everyone agrees that a proper investigation that leads to making this impossible....or as near to impossible as we can get it is the only thing we can ethically do. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 3.29pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Jun 17 3.28pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

Probably not for the top floors as much. Sprinklers also have to happen in my view.....problem is ensuring that it can't be vandalized and so on.

Still I think everyone agrees that a proper investigation that leads to making this impossible....or as near to impossible as we can get it is the only thing we can ethically do.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 3.29pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 15 Jun 17 3.40pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Probably not for the top floors as much. Sprinklers also have to happen in my view.....problem is ensuring that it can't be vandalized and so on. Still I think everyone agrees that a proper investigation that leads to making this impossible....or as near to impossible as we can get it is the only thing we can ethically do. yeah, its suprising nothing was in place already and that outside cladding wasnt banned as similar stuf had been faulty in fires in australia and paris Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 3.29pm)
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 15 Jun 17 3.40pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Probably not for the top floors as much. Sprinklers also have to happen in my view.....problem is ensuring that it can't be vandalized and so on.

Still I think everyone agrees that a proper investigation that leads to making this impossible....or as near to impossible as we can get it is the only thing we can ethically do.

yeah, its suprising nothing was in place already and that outside cladding wasnt banned as similar stuf had been faulty in fires in australia and paris
Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jun 2017 3.29pm)

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NickinOX Sailing country. 15 Jun 17 4.02pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt It's emerging that Emma Coad, the newly elected MP for Kensington & Chelsea is on the board of the management company that the residents complained to. That could be a tad embarrassing to spin away. According to wiki, not since 2012. Mind you, the entry was edited under two hours ago. If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 15 Jun 17 4.02pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

It's emerging that Emma Coad, the newly elected MP for Kensington & Chelsea is on the board of the management company that the residents complained to.

That could be a tad embarrassing to spin away.

According to wiki, not since 2012. Mind you, the entry was edited under two hours ago.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Jun 17 4.03pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Technically its Islamist terrorists. Islamic refers to being Muslim, where as Islamist refers to the politicised Islamic groups and movements like IS, Hamas or Iran etc. You can be Islamic without being Islamist. Not really the point. Terrorists and sympathisers exist within the Muslim 'community;. Not sure why some have a problem acknowledging that. Pre mass immgration we didn't have the problem, post mass immigration, we do. It seems those on the liberal Left will twist and turn endlessly to avoid that reality and even blame others for resenting it. Then we get the painfully stating the obvious speech about how you can't blame all Muslims. That is also beside the point.
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Hrolf The Ganger

15 Jun 17 4.03pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Technically its Islamist terrorists. Islamic refers to being Muslim, where as Islamist refers to the politicised Islamic groups and movements like IS, Hamas or Iran etc.

You can be Islamic without being Islamist.

Not really the point. Terrorists and sympathisers exist within the Muslim 'community;. Not sure why some have a problem acknowledging that.
Pre mass immgration we didn't have the problem, post mass immigration, we do.

It seems those on the liberal Left will twist and turn endlessly to avoid that reality and even blame others for resenting it. Then we get the painfully stating the obvious speech about how you can't blame all Muslims. That is also beside the point.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 15 Jun 17 4.11pm
Anyway, enough about muslims. I think heads will definitely roll, but who does the buck stop with on this one?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 15 Jun 17 4.11pm

Anyway, enough about muslims.
I think heads will definitely roll, but who does the buck stop with on this one?

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Lyons550 Shirley 15 Jun 17 4.19pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Anyway, enough about muslims. I think heads will definitely roll, but who does the buck stop with on this one? Yeah you kind derailed your own agenda there didnt you lol As far as the 'blame game' that can only take place once ALL the FACTS are in the open...I daresay the Local Authority will cop most of it though. But as I said...it really depends on the findings...as you'd expect. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 15 Jun 17 4.19pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Anyway, enough about muslims.
I think heads will definitely roll, but who does the buck stop with on this one?

Yeah you kind derailed your own agenda there didnt you lol

As far as the 'blame game' that can only take place once ALL the FACTS are in the open...I daresay the Local Authority will cop most of it though. But as I said...it really depends on the findings...as you'd expect.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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