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Whiteley a spy, says Tomlinson

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Mar 17 3.55pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Also a ComRes for Catholic Voices, asked if people agreed with the statement that:
“Marriage should continue to be defined as a life-long exclusive commitment between a man and a woman”
70% of people agreed, with 22% disagreeing.

So their anti-divorce as well... How surprising that a ComRes for Catholic Voices should return such overwhelmingly Catholic views.

 


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 08 Mar 17 3.59pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Opinions don't matter. The issue is that the law discriminates in the provision of the same legal rights of other citizens. 99% of people can believe in something, that doesn't make it right or legal. The role of government must also be to protect minority groups in society from the 'casual tyranny of a uninvolved majority'.

Also the initial question is wrong, there were issues around pension entitlements and probate that were potentially in significant conflict with 'the same rights'. Its largely thought that Cameron introduced the Gay Marriage act for liberal reasons, however there were more reasonable financial and legal reasons regarding the rights of civil partnerships.

The opinions of others, should not, without good reason impinge on the rights of others to pursue their life.

A democracy cannot exist in a situation where what is right ethically, morally or legally, is defined by the majority. That situation simply creates an unfair system in which prejudice creates second class citizens.

Now I am bias, I believe that where a significant consensus cannot be reached on a matter, then the right to decide, and the responsibility for those actions, should reside with the individual, not the majority (especially when it has no impact on them).

As I said, there is no reasonable grounds to have denied gay people the same legal entitlement in relationships as heterosexual. Its an unreasonable and irrational position.

Now I also believe that Religious groups should be able to positively discriminate against conducting gay marriages, as that's a reasonable compromise.

But religion and religious views cannot be the basis for legal and secular situations.

Why aren't hetrosexual people given access to civil partnerships then?

 


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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Mar 17 4.01pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Why aren't hetrosexual people given access to civil partnerships then?

It's being looked into after the recent case.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 08 Mar 17 4.06pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

It's being looked into after the recent case.

Are you agitating for it?

 


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OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 08 Mar 17 4.19pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What, they have all changed their minds have they?

Actually yes that is exactly what has happened. The majority in favour of gay marriage has grown every year since it was passed. Because people realised that the doom-mongering from the likes of the Coalition for Marriage was utter bollocks and because people realised that actually it had fcuk all to do with them or impact on them.

On civil partnerships for hetrosexual couples, it should absolutely be granted. I have no idea why the government is wasting people's money fighting it.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Mar 17 4.21pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Why aren't hetrosexual people given access to civil partnerships then?

They were prior to the Civil Partnership act. Civil partnerships were redefined to fill the void of gay marriage.

Heterosexual should be given the right to civil partnerships, and non-sexual couples should also have the right to marry. A partner for life should be any one you choose, and who accepts you. I don't see why two single friends should lose out just because they aren't f**king each other.

Provided they don't have pre-existing marriages or partnerships.

Liberalism, like sex, works better when you go all the way.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Mar 17 4.23pm

Originally posted by OknotOK

Actually yes that is exactly what has happened. The majority in favour of gay marriage has grown every year since it was passed. Because people realised that the doom-mongering from the likes of the Coalition for Marriage was utter bollocks and because people realised that actually it had fcuk all to do with them or impact on them.

On civil partnerships for hetrosexual couples, it should absolutely be granted. I have no idea why the government is wasting people's money fighting it.

Plus gay weddings are simply fabulous by comparison.

 


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 08 Mar 17 4.35pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

They were prior to the Civil Partnership act. Civil partnerships were redefined to fill the void of gay marriage.

Heterosexual should be given the right to civil partnerships, and non-sexual couples should also have the right to marry. A partner for life should be any one you choose, and who accepts you. I don't see why two single friends should lose out just because they aren't f**king each other.

Provided they don't have pre-existing marriages or partnerships.

Liberalism, like sex, works better when you go all the way.

A hetrosexual marriage can be annulled due to non-consummation (consummation being defined as normal sexual intercourse). Same sex 'marriages' cannot be annulled in this way. As the hetrosexual marriage is considered as non-valid in that situation, it could be argued that all same sex marriages are therefore invalid. There is also the question of course of gay and non-gay people having access to the same annulment opportunities!

Edited by hedgehog50 (08 Mar 2017 4.36pm)

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Mar 17 4.37pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by OknotOK

Actually yes that is exactly what has happened. The majority in favour of gay marriage has grown every year since it was passed. Because people realised that the doom-mongering from the likes of the Coalition for Marriage was utter bollocks and because people realised that actually it had fcuk all to do with them or impact on them.

On civil partnerships for hetrosexual couples, it should absolutely be granted. I have no idea why the government is wasting people's money fighting it.

A bit odd they didn't figure that our earlier.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 08 Mar 17 4.37pm

Originally posted by OknotOK

Actually yes that is exactly what has happened. The majority in favour of gay marriage has grown every year since it was passed. Because people realised that the doom-mongering from the likes of the Coalition for Marriage was utter bollocks and because people realised that actually it had fcuk all to do with them or impact on them.

On civil partnerships for hetrosexual couples, it should absolutely be granted. I have no idea why the government is wasting people's money fighting it.

LOL

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Mar 17 4.48pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

A hetrosexual marriage can be annulled due to non-consummation (consummation being defined as normal sexual intercourse). Same sex 'marriages' cannot be annulled in this way. As the hetrosexual marriage is considered as non-valid in that situation, it could be argued that all same sex marriages are therefore invalid. There is also the question of course of gay and non-gay people having access to the same annulment opportunities!

Edited by hedgehog50 (08 Mar 2017 4.36pm)

I used to work in the County Court (for a while in Divorce), to get an annulment you actually have prove that the marriage wasn't consummated. In two years the only annulments I saw go through were where someone was already married and where someone had been married against their will.

We did have applications for non-consummation. But generally, none of them were successful. Usually its people who think it'll be quicker than a divorce. But if you've been married for more than two years, getting an annulment for non-consummation is tricky.

Plus its very hard to prove non-consummation (and it has to be reasonable).

Also I think the law on non-consummation specifically states normal sex, which is defined in law as v*****l penile penetration.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 08 Mar 17 5.05pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

A hetrosexual marriage can be annulled due to non-consummation (consummation being defined as normal sexual intercourse). Same sex 'marriages' cannot be annulled in this way. As the hetrosexual marriage is considered as non-valid in that situation, it could be argued that all same sex marriages are therefore invalid. There is also the question of course of gay and non-gay people having access to the same annulment opportunities!

Edited by hedgehog50 (08 Mar 2017 4.36pm)

The definition of the grounds for voidable marriages should definitely be changed to remove the phrase normal sexual intercourse.

In truth, if you've been having any kind of sexual relationship with your partner, chances are the annulment won't be granted.

Annulment rights don't validate or invalidate marriages, as annullments a specific preclusions ruled on very specific individual circumstances.

Chances are, if someone was to pursue an annulment to a gay marriage on the grounds of non-consummation, and appeal it to the supreme court, then its likely they'd win their case.

I can't even find any statistics on annulment.

 


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