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Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.22am
Originally posted by nickgusset Bless him. He seems to think teachers just do finger painting. If only they had time for such fripperies. You weren't even capable of such highbrow activity Gusset.
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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.22am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Bless him. He seems to think teachers just do finger painting. If only they had time for such fripperies.

You weren't even capable of such highbrow activity Gusset.

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.29am
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch One of the problems with unions playing the safety card is that it has almost become their default position so if and when there are legitimate concerns, they are largely ignored. Boy who cried wolf and all that...... For example, this morning the news that operators and NR to work as joint management teams was greeted with the default, we have concerns about safety. At least spend time looking into how it would work and even contribute before just defaulting to the standard line of objection Unions have default positions for every situation. That Union guy interviewed this morning on R4 Today sounded like Scargill, McCluskey etc and as you say went straight on the attack claiming it was the start of privatising Network Rail before even considering it's merits at all. That's why I don't debate with Gusset who is entrenched in Union dogma.
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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.29am

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

One of the problems with unions playing the safety card is that it has almost become their default position so if and when there are legitimate concerns, they are largely ignored. Boy who cried wolf and all that......

For example, this morning the news that operators and NR to work as joint management teams was greeted with the default, we have concerns about safety. At least spend time looking into how it would work and even contribute before just defaulting to the standard line of objection

Unions have default positions for every situation.

That Union guy interviewed this morning on R4 Today sounded like Scargill, McCluskey etc and as you say went straight on the attack claiming it was the start of privatising Network Rail before even considering it's merits at all.

That's why I don't debate with Gusset who is entrenched in Union dogma.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 16 9.30am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Most of the fat lazy plonkers I've encountered on my travels aren't even capable of checking tickets or holding polite conversations with their customers! I'm not saying there isn't a place for more safety procedures but the traditional guards role is redundant and overall control of the train should be with the driver who operates the doors as signed off and agreed by the Independent Rail Inspectorate. Southern Rail are not cutting staff so Guards will have to accept new roles and responsibilities in the name of progress. The Unions should just butt out. 1)You said earlier you listen to all sides of an argument. That's b/s because you openly admit to not reading any counter argument links I post. 2) You've wilfully ignored the fact that 7mins has given info that shows the guard s job is more than just closing doors. 3) If no jobs are being lost, doesn't that point to the fact that the unions gripe is about safety - don't forget, people don't get paid when on strike. Are people losing pay just to be awkward? I very much doubt it. Have a super day.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 16 9.30am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Most of the fat lazy plonkers I've encountered on my travels aren't even capable of checking tickets or holding polite conversations with their customers!

I'm not saying there isn't a place for more safety procedures but the traditional guards role is redundant and overall control of the train should be with the driver who operates the doors as signed off and agreed by the Independent Rail Inspectorate. Southern Rail are not cutting staff so Guards will have to accept new roles and responsibilities in the name of progress. The Unions should just butt out.

1)You said earlier you listen to all sides of an argument. That's b/s because you openly admit to not reading any counter argument links I post.
2) You've wilfully ignored the fact that 7mins has given info that shows the guard s job is more than just closing doors.
3) If no jobs are being lost, doesn't that point to the fact that the unions gripe is about safety - don't forget, people don't get paid when on strike. Are people losing pay just to be awkward? I very much doubt it.

Have a super day.

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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Dec 16 9.46am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted A mere parry that I was able to deflect and deal with cooly... Kermit. You see the truth is I do know what I'm talking about. All I know is that the guards on GWR have a multitude of tasks they are getting on including passenger safety during the many hundreds of times i have journeyed with them. There is absolutely no way they are not needed down here. The driver could not do what they do as he/she would have to leave their cab. I can't speak for Southern as have only used them a handful of times. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 06 Dec 16 9.46am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

A mere parry that I was able to deflect and deal with cooly... Kermit.

You see the truth is I do know what I'm talking about.

All I know is that the guards on GWR have a multitude of tasks they are getting on including passenger safety during the many hundreds of times i have journeyed with them.

There is absolutely no way they are not needed down here. The driver could not do what they do as he/she would have to leave their cab.

I can't speak for Southern as have only used them a handful of times.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.51am
Originally posted by nickgusset 1)You said earlier you listen to all sides of an argument. That's b/s because you openly admit to not reading any counter argument links I post. 2) You've wilfully ignored the fact that 7mins has given info that shows the guard s job is more than just closing doors. 3) If no jobs are being lost, doesn't that point to the fact that the unions gripe is about safety - don't forget, people don't get paid when on strike. Are people losing pay just to be awkward? I very much doubt it. Have a super day. I do listen to all sides usually, but yet again I'll remind you (for the last time) why I don't engage with you specifically. Point 3 above makes my point...... you and other Union blowhards just don't listen.... I've told you that the Independent Rail Inspectorate has signed off on safety, so everyone should now be satisfied. They have listened to all sides, considered it, and given their verdict. So yes, the RMT union are being awkward and probably compensating the strikers so they don't lose out. I am bored to tears going over old ground again and again with you. Quite often I start to read what you say and quickly realise it is the same old guff regurgitated. So. being old also teaches you not to waste precious time on people that will not change their opinions or practices and concentrate on those who might. Good day to you once and for all.
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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.51am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Have a super day.

I do listen to all sides usually, but yet again I'll remind you (for the last time) why I don't engage with you specifically.

Point 3 above makes my point...... you and other Union blowhards just don't listen.... I've told you that the Independent Rail Inspectorate has signed off on safety, so everyone should now be satisfied. They have listened to all sides, considered it, and given their verdict.

So yes, the RMT union are being awkward and probably compensating the strikers so they don't lose out.

I am bored to tears going over old ground again and again with you. Quite often I start to read what you say and quickly realise it is the same old guff regurgitated.

So. being old also teaches you not to waste precious time on people that will not change their opinions or practices and concentrate on those who might.

Good day to you once and for all.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Dec 16 9.51am
Damn all to do with "Safety and security". Driver Operated Only (DOO) trains are used by many operators around the country and this practice has been in place for many years. All to do with Union believing that plans are all about saving money and getting rid of staff, privatisation etc etc but they are playing the "Safety and security" card and misleading the public. No more to say on this as I will only get on my darned "Soapbox" and my blood pressure will rise to dangerous levels.That's me finished in this debate. Edited by Willo (06 Dec 2016 10.24am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Dec 16 9.51am

Damn all to do with "Safety and security". Driver Operated Only (DOO) trains are used by many operators around the country and this practice has been in place for many years.

All to do with Union believing that plans are all about saving money and getting rid of staff, privatisation etc etc but they are playing the "Safety and security" card and misleading the public.

No more to say on this as I will only get on my darned "Soapbox" and my blood pressure will rise to dangerous levels.That's me finished in this debate.

Edited by Willo (06 Dec 2016 10.24am)

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.57am
Originally posted by Kermit8 All I know is that the guards on GWR have a multitude of tasks they are getting on including passenger safety during the many hundreds of times i have journeyed with them. There is absolutely no way they are not needed down here. The driver could not do what they do as he/she would have to leave their cab. I can't speak for Southern as have only used them a handful of times. I'll remind you as well..... The Independent Rail Inspectorate (IRI) have signed off the driver only operation on Southern having listened to all parties concerned and considering those views and their implications on safety issues. It's not my opinion, I am quoting a FACT. As to whether that situation is exclusive to Southern, or could be rolled out to Exeter/GWR I don't know, but if you want your opinion heard, best to pass it on to the IRI for their consideration. Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.58am)
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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 9.57am

Originally posted by Kermit8

All I know is that the guards on GWR have a multitude of tasks they are getting on including passenger safety during the many hundreds of times i have journeyed with them.

There is absolutely no way they are not needed down here. The driver could not do what they do as he/she would have to leave their cab.

I can't speak for Southern as have only used them a handful of times.

I'll remind you as well.....

The Independent Rail Inspectorate (IRI) have signed off the driver only operation on Southern having listened to all parties concerned and considering those views and their implications on safety issues.

It's not my opinion, I am quoting a FACT.

As to whether that situation is exclusive to Southern, or could be rolled out to Exeter/GWR I don't know, but if you want your opinion heard, best to pass it on to the IRI for their consideration.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.58am)

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 06 Dec 16 10.08am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Finally, I would suggest that the Rail Industry needs a complete overhaul to try and match the efficiency and safety of the rail systems operated in Japan and Switzerland which everyone knows are the best in the world. Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.03am) Not sure Japan is the model of safety and efficiency that's suggested Japan employ Pushers to cram people onto massively overcapacity trains, stuffing people into absolutely unsafe conditions. It's funny when you see it on a video, it is not funny when you are in it. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 06 Dec 16 10.08am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Finally, I would suggest that the Rail Industry needs a complete overhaul to try and match the efficiency and safety of the rail systems operated in Japan and Switzerland which everyone knows are the best in the world.
Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.03am)

Not sure Japan is the model of safety and efficiency that's suggested

Japan employ Pushers to cram people onto massively overcapacity trains, stuffing people into absolutely unsafe conditions. It's funny when you see it on a video, it is not funny when you are in it.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Dec 16 10.12am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted I'll remind you as well..... The Independent Rail Inspectorate (IRI) have signed off the driver only operation on Southern having listened to all parties concerned and considering those views and their implications on safety issues. It's not my opinion, I am quoting a FACT. As to whether that situation is exclusive to Southern, or could be rolled out to Exeter/GWR I don't know, but if you want your opinion heard, best to pass it on to the IRI for their consideration. Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.58am) "The ORRs committee’s inquiry into rail safety, Dr George Bearfield, the director of system safety at the RSSB, defended the RSSB’s decision to declare DOO safe despite admitting that train companies would still have to carry out individual assessments." RailTechnolgy Magazine. So safe up to a point and circumstance but not across the board for Driver Only Operated. Each company/region will have to do their own risk assessments. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 06 Dec 16 10.12am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I'll remind you as well.....

It's not my opinion, I am quoting a FACT.

As to whether that situation is exclusive to Southern, or could be rolled out to Exeter/GWR I don't know, but if you want your opinion heard, best to pass it on to the IRI for their consideration.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 9.58am)

"The ORRs committee’s inquiry into rail safety, Dr George Bearfield, the director of system safety at the RSSB, defended the RSSB’s decision to declare DOO safe despite admitting that train companies would still have to carry out individual assessments."

RailTechnolgy Magazine.

So safe up to a point and circumstance but not across the board for Driver Only Operated. Each company/region will have to do their own risk assessments.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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.TUX. 06 Dec 16 10.19am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Unions have default positions for every situation. That Union guy interviewed this morning on R4 Today sounded like Scargill, McCluskey etc and as you say went straight on the attack claiming it was the start of privatising Network Rail before even considering it's merits at all. That's why I don't debate with Gusset who is entrenched in Union dogma. There are no merits to privatising anything related to a countries infrastructure. Taking profits to pay dividends to speculators is just bonkers. Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

06 Dec 16 10.19am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Unions have default positions for every situation.

That Union guy interviewed this morning on R4 Today sounded like Scargill, McCluskey etc and as you say went straight on the attack claiming it was the start of privatising Network Rail before even considering it's merits at all.

That's why I don't debate with Gusset who is entrenched in Union dogma.

There are no merits to privatising anything related to a countries infrastructure. Taking profits to pay dividends to speculators is just bonkers.

Buy Litecoin.

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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 10.24am
Originally posted by Kermit8 "The ORRs committee’s inquiry into rail safety, Dr George Bearfield, the director of system safety at the RSSB, defended the RSSB’s decision to declare DOO safe despite admitting that train companies would still have to carry out individual assessments." RailTechnolgy Magazine. So safe up to a point and circumstance but not across the board for Driver Only Operated. Each company/region will have to do their own risk assessments. [Link] Above is a link to the findings of the "independent rail safety body". You can read it for yourself, Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 10.26am)
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Hoof Hearted 06 Dec 16 10.24am

Originally posted by Kermit8

RailTechnolgy Magazine.

So safe up to a point and circumstance but not across the board for Driver Only Operated. Each company/region will have to do their own risk assessments.

[Link]

Above is a link to the findings of the "independent rail safety body".

You can read it for yourself,

Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Dec 2016 10.26am)

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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Dec 16 10.26am
Originally posted by .TUX. There are no merits to privatising anything related to a countries infrastructure. Taking profits to pay dividends to speculators is just bonkers. Exactly. Shareholders sit on their fat arses and let others do the work for them then take the money that should really be re-invested to make fares cheaper, have more stock, enough staff, enough upgrades, etc. Privatising public utilities into regional monopolies is one of the many ugly faces of capitalism. Punishing the majority in order to cash benefit the already wealthy few. Saw a train fare from Devon to Manchester for £600 return a few months back. How has that situation been allowed to even come about? Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 06 Dec 16 10.26am

Originally posted by .TUX.

There are no merits to privatising anything related to a countries infrastructure. Taking profits to pay dividends to speculators is just bonkers.

Exactly. Shareholders sit on their fat arses and let others do the work for them then take the money that should really be re-invested to make fares cheaper, have more stock, enough staff, enough upgrades, etc.

Privatising public utilities into regional monopolies is one of the many ugly faces of capitalism. Punishing the majority in order to cash benefit the already wealthy few.

Saw a train fare from Devon to Manchester for £600 return a few months back. How has that situation been allowed to even come about?

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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