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JohnyBoy Flag 01 May 16 7.08pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Johny Boy - 250 thousand people working at Costa Coffee do not make them net contributors to the economy.
They are simply taking jobs which could otherwise be filled by this country's unemployed. These people are not creating jobs but are taking jobs.
The average Eastern European worker is generally (not always) non skilled and low income and more often than not have their pay topped up by some kind of tax credit. They are all entitled to our health system and of course all use of our schools and public services.
I am a professional landlord and rent properties to many Eastern Europeans who in the main I find very nice and make great tenants.
Due to referencing my tenants I am probably more aware than most on this board exactly how much in benefits the average Eastern European claims, be it working tax credit or child tax credit.
I speak from experience when I say this, nearly all my Eastern European tenants are claiming something even though they are working.
Net contributors - my ass!
Tom

Disagree with respect. The UK unemployment rate is at 5.4% below what economists call the natural rate i.e. we are at or near full employment on any historical measure. There are plenty of jobs for those willing to work although i would (perhaps this is a different issue) like to see the living wage rise and the raising of the tax threshold has helped lower income families.
Additionally its not accurate to portray all eu migrants as low skilled eastern european as if 180+k already had jobs to come to this implies that many are skilled and even highly paid. I too am a landlord and rent to european people. One couple are italian, no kids, both professionally employed (accountant and electrician) and like most of their friends, some of whom i have met, would be considered net contributors to the exchequer. Illegal immigration i would agree but its illegal and will happen if we are in or out

 

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JohnyBoy Flag 01 May 16 7.11pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by big_palace_fan

An entirely non-exhaustive list of reason:

1) Peace. Increasing cultural, economic and political ties with fellow EU states has helped secure the longest peace time in Europe since the Roman Empire. It would be folly to understate the role the EU has played in maintaining peace on the 100th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme where no few than 60,000 British men on the first day were marched to their death.

2) Economic success. Millions of jobs directly reliant on free trade with the EU. Talk of trade deals with around the world are not likely and will take time even if they do happen.

3) Cheaper costs - no roaming charges for phones coming in soon, cheaper imports, cheaper labourers (admitedly at the expense of some people - but what doesn't have winners and losers?).

4) Increased global influence and sway. Does anyone really think in 100, 50 or even 10 years any of the future world powers would listen to us without the considerable sway we hold within Europe? The largest common market in the world. When America, China and India walk to us it is largely because we are a leading member of the EU, not because we are aging Britain.

5) Fiscal contribution made by immigrants - blame government for poor planning not migrants coming here to work hard and get on.

6) Financial markets. Upon leaving, perceived riskiness of UK government debt will rise and so will the interest we pay on it - for any economists out there this just means higher taxes in the future (Ricardian Equivalence).


I could go on etc etc.

I am not saying the EU is faultless and certain groups haven't lost out by being a member.

When you stand in the booth to place your vote, think will I be better or worse off for Britain remaining or leaving? What about my children and their children after them? There can be only one sensible answer.

Remain.


Edited by big_palace_fan (01 May 2016 6.44pm)

Well said young man, ....

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 01 May 16 7.27pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Brexit = Messing up the economy thus affecting our own citizens as well as limiting our kids futures. It also increases the chances of future conflict and will mean putting up barriers so again stifling the next generations. For what? Some delusional sense of empowerment and pursuit of a victory most pyrrhic.

That's what our fellow Nigel Palace fan stands for.

The more enlightened Brexiters realise that leaving is going to have a negative impact immediately but they really don't seem to care. Nige is one of them. Theirs is more a warped and destructive nationalistic agenda in the guise of patriotism and identity and freedom.

At the end of the day they just don't like being part of Europe whether or not it has generally been good for us bigger picture scenario. And it has. In spades.


Nonsense nonsense and more nonsense.

Messing up the economy ? It is messed up now. And who has information to predict such a downturn? Answer, no one.
Increasing the chance of conflict? Drivel The EU has nothing to do with defense. That is an issue for NATO.
The biggest risk to our personal safety is an open border policy. Recent events have proven that.

Stifling the next generation? The next generation will be mainly ethnic and Eastern European if we keep going down the road we are on and most will be on low wages ans still living at home at 30.

Vote BREXIT>

 

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big_palace_fan Flag 01 May 16 7.40pm Send a Private Message to big_palace_fan Add big_palace_fan as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


Nonsense nonsense and more nonsense.

Messing up the economy ? It is messed up now. And who has information to predict such a downturn? Answer, no one.
Increasing the chance of conflict? Drivel The EU has nothing to do with defense. That is an issue for NATO.
The biggest risk to our personal safety is an open border policy. Recent events have proven that.

Stifling the next generation? The next generation will be mainly ethnic and Eastern European if we keep going down the road we are on and most will be on low wages ans still living at home at 30.

Vote BREXIT>

Please keep posting. You're doing more good for the Remain camp than you are for Brexit through your utter drivel and illogically thought through views.

Also FYI, the biggest risk to your personal safety is (touch wood) almost certainly not terrorism. Personal diet / habits such as alcohol, air quality (check the facts for yourself [Link] a sudden stroke, a heart attack, getting hit fatally by a car are all far more likely occurances than being victim of a terrorist attack. I sincerely hope nope of these tragic events happen to you (were are all human and Palace fans at the end of the day regardless of views of Brexit).

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 01 May 16 8.28pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by big_palace_fan

Please keep posting. You're doing more good for the Remain camp than you are for Brexit through your utter drivel and illogically thought through views.

Also FYI, the biggest risk to your personal safety is (touch wood) almost certainly not terrorism. Personal diet / habits such as alcohol, air quality (check the facts for yourself [Link] a sudden stroke, a heart attack, getting hit fatally by a car are all far more likely occurances than being victim of a terrorist attack. I sincerely hope nope of these tragic events happen to you (were are all human and Palace fans at the end of the day regardless of views of Brexit).

Thanks. That's the best laugh I had all day.

You were actually being serious weren't you.

 

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big_palace_fan Flag 01 May 16 8.59pm Send a Private Message to big_palace_fan Add big_palace_fan as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Thanks. That's the best laugh I had all day.

You were actually being serious weren't you.

Wholly serious. What do you consider the greatest threats to your life?

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 01 May 16 9.14pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by big_palace_fan

Wholly serious. What do you consider the greatest threats to your life?

I was replying to a comment about increased risk of conflict not about this months edition of Men's health.

Stop it please.

 

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rikz Flag Croydon 01 May 16 9.53pm Send a Private Message to rikz Add rikz as a friend

Originally posted by big_palace_fan

An entirely non-exhaustive list of reason:

1) Peace. Increasing cultural, economic and political ties with fellow EU states has helped secure the longest peace time in Europe since the Roman Empire. It would be folly to understate the role the EU has played in maintaining peace on the 100th anniversary of the Battle of the Somme where no few than 60,000 British men on the first day were marched to their death.

2) Economic success. Millions of jobs directly reliant on free trade with the EU. Talk of trade deals with around the world are not likely and will take time even if they do happen.

3) Cheaper costs - no roaming charges for phones coming in soon, cheaper imports, cheaper labourers (admitedly at the expense of some people - but what doesn't have winners and losers?).

4) Increased global influence and sway. Does anyone really think in 100, 50 or even 10 years any of the future world powers would listen to us without the considerable sway we hold within Europe? The largest common market in the world. When America, China and India walk to us it is largely because we are a leading member of the EU, not because we are aging Britain.

5) Fiscal contribution made by immigrants - blame government for poor planning not migrants coming here to work hard and get on.

6) Financial markets. Upon leaving, perceived riskiness of UK government debt will rise and so will the interest we pay on it - for any economists out there this just means higher taxes in the future (Ricardian Equivalence).


I could go on etc etc.

I am not saying the EU is faultless and certain groups haven't lost out by being a member.

When you stand in the booth to place your vote, think will I be better or worse off for Britain remaining or leaving? What about my children and their children after them? There can be only one sensible answer.

Remain.


Edited by big_palace_fan (01 May 2016 6.44pm)

Be quite you idiot with your pro EU propaganda, peace has absolutely nothing to do with the eu, think your mixing the eu with nato

 

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JohnyBoy Flag 02 May 16 6.31am Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by rikz

Be quite you idiot with your pro EU propaganda, peace has absolutely nothing to do with the eu, think your mixing the eu with nato

The nobel peace prize for 2012 was awarded to the eu "for over 6 decades the eu has contributed to the advancement of peace and reconciliation, democracy and human rights in Europe'
Indeed one of the main reason it was set up was to bring an end to frequent and bloody wars between its neighbours.....lest we forget

 

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Hoof Hearted 02 May 16 9.53am

Another set back for the remain camp today with Nicola Sturgeon (aka wee jimmy crankie) coming out with the news that SNP will be pushing for another Scotland Independence referendum very soon, despite the last one in 2014 being a "once in a lifetime opportunity!"

So we now have the following Remain camp leading campaigners and their personal history of lies and hypocrisy about the EU...

Corbyn - has campaigned for over 40 years for UK exit of EU on the basis of it's bloated bureaucracy and wasteful expenditure.

Sturgeon - Her and the SNP's raison d'etre is just independence for Scotland - any other campaigning is just a means to achieving their ultimate goal.

Cameron - until he called the referendum he was absolutely against the direction in which the EU is headed and his outburst at being presented with a £1.8 Billion surcharge because our economy was doing better than other member states infuriated him.

Osborne - same reasons as Cameron.

Major - to be fair he has always been in favour of the EU, but he also campaigned for us to ditch the pound in favour of the Euro and used the same arguments then that he's using now despite the failure of the Euro compared to the strength of Sterling and his own experience of the ERM and all the financial sh1tstorm that caused.

Blair - He probably sees some financial angle that will benefit him personally and swell his coffers. His support for any campaign should make anyone steer clear of it.

Obama - None of his business really, but since he's stuck his nib in, I would remind you all what a failure as a President he has been despite all the promise and fanfares when he was inaugurated with plans to reform USA and achieved nothing.

Hollande/Merkel - they just want the status quo to continue and keep things sweet for their own economies and major industries like Farming and Car Manufacturing which does well out of us and the EU for subsidies.

 

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Hoof Hearted 02 May 16 10.01am

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

The nobel peace prize for 2012 was awarded to the eu "for over 6 decades the eu has contributed to the advancement of peace and reconciliation, democracy and human rights in Europe'
Indeed one of the main reason it was set up was to bring an end to frequent and bloody wars between its neighbours.....lest we forget

No it wasn't... it was called the Common Market when it was created and was just a trading agreement to benefit the largest economic nations in Europe. There was no talk of political or economic union. The last referendum in the UK in 1975 was on the basis of a trade agreement with Europe only. The public were misled.

Nato and the United Nations have done more for peace in Europe than the EU.

 

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big_palace_fan Flag 02 May 16 10.27am Send a Private Message to big_palace_fan Add big_palace_fan as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

No it wasn't... it was called the Common Market when it was created and was just a trading agreement to benefit the largest economic nations in Europe. There was no talk of political or economic union. The last referendum in the UK in 1975 was on the basis of a trade agreement with Europe only. The public were misled.

Nato and the United Nations have done more for peace in Europe than the EU.

And what was the aim of the common market - amongst other things to integrate trade between major European nations so they rely on each other, because more assimilated and hence don't war.

 

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