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Stuk Top half 22 Feb 16 6.44pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Exactly. If one geeky chef can make the EU change an important rule then there is a route in for more powerful others IF they have the back-up, good arguments and will. The rule shouldn't have been there in the first place. If it was and we weren't in the EU it would've been quicker and easier to change it. I notice you've ignored the comparison to the old SPL regarding change from within. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 22 Feb 16 6.44pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Exactly. If one geeky chef can make the EU change an important rule then there is a route in for more powerful others IF they have the back-up, good arguments and will.

The rule shouldn't have been there in the first place. If it was and we weren't in the EU it would've been quicker and easier to change it.

I notice you've ignored the comparison to the old SPL regarding change from within.

Optimistic as ever

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Kermit8 Hevon 22 Feb 16 6.56pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman That is some claim. Have they factored in European energy firms or left it out? Fruit & Veg - Europe and afar. Alcohol - A lot from Europe or now Japanese owned foreign labels. Clothing - Far East. Motors - Europe or Asian cars built here. Kitchen appliances - German & others Holidays - Put prices up and people go somewhere else. If people claim that tariffs are at risk of exit, how can they claim we'd lose 8 times our input (if it exists) when a tariff is essentially a VAT? They will still want to sell us their stuff and it may or may not go up a tariff amount, but then so could our's. This is what I could find from the CBI stats and their context "There are lots of different economic studies about the EU to consider, drawing varying conclusions about the benefits and costs. As a contribution to the debate, the CBI’s economists have carried out an in-depth review of the most credible academic studies available on the overall impact, both positive and negative, of EU membership on the UK economy. We judge that the net benefit of membership on the basis of these studies is therefore most likely around 4-5% of GDP per year, £73-91bn, which works out at around £3,000 per household. That is roughly equivalent to the size of the economies of the North East and Northern Ireland combined. While the EU certainly has its frustrations for businesses, access to a market of 500m customers has been crucial to the fortunes of hundreds of small and medium-sized firms in the North East who export or form part of massive supply chains worth millions of pounds. For those firms which do not directly export, they may not necessarily see how their business is benefiting from the EU.[/i] But you can bet that businesses higher up the chain are doing exactly that - selling in Europe - meaning that this link is crucial to the success of the firms across the entire chain. And, of course, trade with the EU boosts UK prosperity generally and indirectly means that people have more cash in their pockets to spend in local shops, cafes and restaurants. Those calling for a “Brexit” must offer a credible explanation of how a new relationship will look and how the UK will not lose out economically. Some suggest we have a Norway-style relationship with the EU, but they still pay much into the system but with no control over the rules – and are obliged to still apply freedom of movement rules.nefiting from the EU. But you can bet that businesses higher up the chain are doing exactly that - selling in Europe - meaning that this link is crucial to the success of the firms across the entire chain. And, of course, trade with the EU boosts UK prosperity generally and indirectly means that people have more cash in their pockets to spend in local shops, cafes and restaurants. Those calling for a “Brexit” must offer a credible explanation of how a new relationship will look and how the UK will not lose out economically. Some suggest we have a Norway-style relationship with the EU, but they still pay much into the system but with no control over the rules – and are obliged to still apply freedom of movement rules." Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 22 Feb 16 6.56pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

That is some claim. Have they factored in European energy firms or left it out?

Fruit & Veg - Europe and afar.
Alcohol - A lot from Europe or now Japanese owned foreign labels.
Clothing - Far East.
Motors - Europe or Asian cars built here.
Kitchen appliances - German & others
Holidays - Put prices up and people go somewhere else.

If people claim that tariffs are at risk of exit, how can they claim we'd lose 8 times our input (if it exists) when a tariff is essentially a VAT? They will still want to sell us their stuff and it may or may not go up a tariff amount, but then so could our's.

This is what I could find from the CBI stats and their context

"There are lots of different economic studies about the EU to consider, drawing varying conclusions about the benefits and costs. As a contribution to the debate, the CBI’s economists have carried out an in-depth review of the most credible academic studies available on the overall impact, both positive and negative, of EU membership on the UK economy.

We judge that the net benefit of membership on the basis of these studies is therefore most likely around 4-5% of GDP per year, £73-91bn, which works out at around £3,000 per household. That is roughly equivalent to the size of the economies of the North East and Northern Ireland combined.

While the EU certainly has its frustrations for businesses, access to a market of 500m customers has been crucial to the fortunes of hundreds of small and medium-sized firms in the North East who export or form part of massive supply chains worth millions of pounds. For those firms which do not directly export, they may not necessarily see how their business is benefiting from the EU.[/i]

But you can bet that businesses higher up the chain are doing exactly that - selling in Europe - meaning that this link is crucial to the success of the firms across the entire chain. And, of course, trade with the EU boosts UK prosperity generally and indirectly means that people have more cash in their pockets to spend in local shops, cafes and restaurants.

Those calling for a “Brexit” must offer a credible explanation of how a new relationship will look and how the UK will not lose out economically. Some suggest we have a Norway-style relationship with the EU, but they still pay much into the system but with no control over the rules – and are obliged to still apply freedom of movement rules.nefiting from the EU.

But you can bet that businesses higher up the chain are doing exactly that - selling in Europe - meaning that this link is crucial to the success of the firms across the entire chain. And, of course, trade with the EU boosts UK prosperity generally and indirectly means that people have more cash in their pockets to spend in local shops, cafes and restaurants.

Those calling for a “Brexit” must offer a credible explanation of how a new relationship will look and how the UK will not lose out economically. Some suggest we have a Norway-style relationship with the EU, but they still pay much into the system but with no control over the rules – and are obliged to still apply freedom of movement rules."

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 22 Feb 16 7.02pm
Originally posted by Stuk The rule shouldn't have been there in the first place. If it was and we weren't in the EU it would've been quicker and easier to change it. I notice you've ignored the comparison to the old SPL regarding change from within. No. I read it and thought about it. I didn't ignore it. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 22 Feb 16 7.02pm

Originally posted by Stuk

The rule shouldn't have been there in the first place. If it was and we weren't in the EU it would've been quicker and easier to change it.

I notice you've ignored the comparison to the old SPL regarding change from within.

No. I read it and thought about it. I didn't ignore it.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 22 Feb 16 7.10pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 This is what I could find from the CBI stats and their context We judge that the net benefit of membership on the basis of these studies is therefore most likely around 4-5% of GDP per year, £73-91bn, which works out at around £3,000 per household. That is roughly equivalent to the size of the economies of the North East and Northern Ireland combined. Those calling for a “Brexit” must offer a credible explanation of how a new relationship will look and how the UK will not lose out economically. Some suggest we have a Norway-style relationship with the EU, but they still pay much into the system but with no control over the rules – and are obliged to still apply freedom of movement rules." It would be interesting to know how they get to 4-5% and then talk about Norway not being a member but getting all the benefits and no say, pretty much like us atm. What we obviously need is controlled movement of labour and negotiations that'll amount to similar to Norway or Switzerland. But that'll mean politicians working to earn their corn and actually grasping theories and concepts like when they had to learn what the difference was between debt and budget deficit in 2010. That £3,000 they estimate does not go into the wallets of households. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 22 Feb 16 7.10pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

This is what I could find from the CBI stats and their context

We judge that the net benefit of membership on the basis of these studies is therefore most likely around 4-5% of GDP per year, £73-91bn, which works out at around £3,000 per household. That is roughly equivalent to the size of the economies of the North East and Northern Ireland combined.

Those calling for a “Brexit” must offer a credible explanation of how a new relationship will look and how the UK will not lose out economically. Some suggest we have a Norway-style relationship with the EU, but they still pay much into the system but with no control over the rules – and are obliged to still apply freedom of movement rules."

It would be interesting to know how they get to 4-5% and then talk about Norway not being a member but getting all the benefits and no say, pretty much like us atm. What we obviously need is controlled movement of labour and negotiations that'll amount to similar to Norway or Switzerland. But that'll mean politicians working to earn their corn and actually grasping theories and concepts like when they had to learn what the difference was between debt and budget deficit in 2010.

That £3,000 they estimate does not go into the wallets of households.

COYP

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Rubin 22 Feb 16 7.11pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Nothing to do with Boris then? Would it still have gone down if he had gone to the 'in' camp do you think? I'm not sure what difference that makes. Presumably people are taking us leaving more seriously now that he's 'on side', meaning that, as I originally started, there's uncertainty.
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Rubin

22 Feb 16 7.11pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Nothing to do with Boris then? Would it still have gone down if he had gone to the 'in' camp do you think?

I'm not sure what difference that makes. Presumably people are taking us leaving more seriously now that he's 'on side', meaning that, as I originally started, there's uncertainty.

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Rubin 22 Feb 16 7.12pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 His very rich father was a huge campaigner for 'out' back in the 90's too so no massive surprise there. I could say exactly the same thing about his father then, in which case my point has even more merit.
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Rubin

22 Feb 16 7.12pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

His very rich father was a huge campaigner for 'out' back in the 90's too so no massive surprise there.

I could say exactly the same thing about his father then, in which case my point has even more merit.

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-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 22 Feb 16 7.29pm
Four more months to post on a thread disputing 'this fact against that fact' when the nuts n bolts of the situation is basically................we'll all see no difference to our lives. Life will go on, just as it always has Time to move forward together.
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-TUX-

Alphabettispaghetti 22 Feb 16 7.29pm

Four more months to post on a thread disputing 'this fact against that fact' when the nuts n bolts of the situation is basically................we'll all see no difference to our lives.

Life will go on, just as it always has

Time to move forward together.

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leifandersonshair Newport 22 Feb 16 8.21pm
Originally posted by -TUX- Four more months to post on a thread disputing 'this fact against that fact' when the nuts n bolts of the situation is basically................we'll all see no difference to our lives. Life will go on, just as it always has Quite right. Most of the people posting on here (on BOTH sides) have already made up their minds and won't change them regardless of anything that might happen in the next few months, so will make no difference anyway. Its the uncertain, the waverers, and the uninformed (and a big chunk of the electorate fall into one category or another!) who will actually sway the issue come voting day. Expect the media to weigh in with scare stories both for and against (economy will collapse if we leave vs drowning in hordes of migrants if we stay) pretty much non stop from now until June.
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leifandersonshair

Newport 22 Feb 16 8.21pm

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Originally posted by -TUX-

Four more months to post on a thread disputing 'this fact against that fact' when the nuts n bolts of the situation is basically................we'll all see no difference to our lives.

Life will go on, just as it always has

Quite right. Most of the people posting on here (on BOTH sides) have already made up their minds and won't change them regardless of anything that might happen in the next few months, so will make no difference anyway.

Its the uncertain, the waverers, and the uninformed (and a big chunk of the electorate fall into one category or another!) who will actually sway the issue come voting day. Expect the media to weigh in with scare stories both for and against (economy will collapse if we leave vs drowning in hordes of migrants if we stay) pretty much non stop from now until June.

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matt_himself Matataland 22 Feb 16 9.28pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Still projecting your own ills onto others, I see. It can't be easy being you living in denial for so long. Psychotherapy may help. And to stop this becoming another tedious MATTHEW thread I will only debate about the EU and ignore your 'look at me look at me' childish and, frankly, boring vitriol from now. I know why you do it. Anger. Anger that I see you in a way that, deep down, you know to be true but, for some reason, you just can't actually admit it to yourself. Edited by Kermit8 (22 Feb 2016 4.48pm) No. I think you are a hypocrite. Saying one thing (that we should all get along), yet doing another (moving as far away as possible from multiculturalism and calling us all racist if we question it and you). "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 22 Feb 16 9.28pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Still projecting your own ills onto others, I see.

It can't be easy being you living in denial for so long. Psychotherapy may help.

And to stop this becoming another tedious MATTHEW thread I will only debate about the EU and ignore your 'look at me look at me' childish and, frankly, boring vitriol from now.

I know why you do it. Anger. Anger that I see you in a way that, deep down, you know to be true but, for some reason, you just can't actually admit it to yourself.

Edited by Kermit8 (22 Feb 2016 4.48pm)

No. I think you are a hypocrite. Saying one thing (that we should all get along), yet doing another (moving as far away as possible from multiculturalism and calling us all racist if we question it and you).

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Feb 16 9.39pm
Originally posted by matt_himself No. I think you are a hypocrite. Saying one thing (that we should all get along), yet doing another (moving as far away as possible from multiculturalism and calling us all racist if we question it and you). What has this got to do with the EU Vote? I still haven't been persuaded either way yet. Too much sniping at individuals and no real facts or evidence. (A bit like this thread really)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Feb 16 9.39pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

What has this got to do with the EU Vote?

I still haven't been persuaded either way yet. Too much sniping at individuals and no real facts or evidence.
(A bit like this thread really)

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Stuk Top half 22 Feb 16 9.49pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 No. I read it and thought about it. I didn't ignore it. Apologies. Do you think it was a fair comparison to the situation regarding changing the EU from within? Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 22 Feb 16 9.49pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

No. I read it and thought about it. I didn't ignore it.

Apologies. Do you think it was a fair comparison to the situation regarding changing the EU from within?

Optimistic as ever

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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 10.20pm
I trust someone like Nigel Lawson more than anyone on here , or Tony Blair or John Major. He is supporting the Out/Leave campaign. Good enough for me and Mrs Hoof to vote with him.
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Hoof Hearted 22 Feb 16 10.20pm

I trust someone like Nigel Lawson more than anyone on here , or Tony Blair or John Major.

He is supporting the Out/Leave campaign.

Good enough for me and Mrs Hoof to vote with him.

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