Dave Whelan

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Dave Whelan

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jamiemartin721 Reading 24 Nov 14 4.58pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 4.16pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 2.54pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 2.30pm Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 2.06pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 1.23pm Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 1.21pm The fact that Whelen says he will resign as Wigan chairman is disgusting on his part. he is more or less saying what i said about Jewish and Chinese people is right. Your stuck in a time warp Dave and i hope you are charged. An interesting interpretation. What would you have him do ? He should resign off course but he should be resigning for offending the entire Chinese and Jewish community. Not saying if i am charged i will resign,Whelen saying he will resign if he is charged is him more or less justifying what he said about Jewish and Chinese people. Maybe he thinks that people are way to sensitive these days and are far to keen to jump on the bandwagon of condemnation. I would agree with that sentiment. I could be called a honky or a round eye mo fo all day long and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. racial descriptions of that sort just don't bother me and therefore they can't hurt me. I think the whole insult thing tends to jar less if your come from the group that did the 'persecuting and oppressing'. Its more akin to referring to the working class of Rochester as flag waving white van driving mild racists. The historical context is essential. Which is why it doesn't really affect you when your called a honkie, but call one black bloke in the pub a cotton picking ** and it can turn into something serious I've heard that argument many times but how far in the past does this stuff have to be before we let it go ? Should I still resent Germans, Romans and the French. Harbouring historical resentment only hurts ones self ultimately. Anyway didn't we liberate the Jews from Hitler** and give them a homeland. And don't we keep many Chinese families in 4x4's by buying sweet and sour chicken balls most weekends. I rest my case. Not really, they'd murdered 6m Jews by the time we got around to liberating them. Hardly the greatest liberation. Also, given most of the death camps were on the 'other side' of Europe, a lot of the liberating was done by the Red Army. I suspect that white English people being a bit anti-semetic gets a lot less vitriol than say a right wing German or an Arab, simply because it runs deeper in the offending parties history. My Grand dad died hating the Germans, showing that he could personally hold a grudge for 70 odd years. Didn't matter if they were born before or after the war, he had no time for them. Prejudice and how people react to prejudice, is very personal. And no one race has ever had quite the level of persecution as the Jewish people (well not without effectively ceasing to exist as a people). As for Israel, they took it through a protracted guerilla warfare / terrorist campaign. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 24 Nov 14 4.58pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 4.16pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 2.54pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 2.30pm

Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 2.06pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 1.23pm

Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 1.21pm

The fact that Whelen says he will resign as Wigan chairman is disgusting on his part.

he is more or less saying what i said about Jewish and Chinese people is right.

Your stuck in a time warp Dave and i hope you are charged.

An interesting interpretation. What would you have him do ?

He should resign off course but he should be resigning for offending the entire Chinese and Jewish community.

Not saying if i am charged i will resign,Whelen saying he will resign if he is charged is him more or less justifying what he said about Jewish and Chinese people.

Maybe he thinks that people are way to sensitive these days and are far to keen to jump on the bandwagon of condemnation. I would agree with that sentiment. I could be called a honky or a round eye mo fo all day long and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. racial descriptions of that sort just don't bother me and therefore they can't hurt me.

I think the whole insult thing tends to jar less if your come from the group that did the 'persecuting and oppressing'. Its more akin to referring to the working class of Rochester as flag waving white van driving mild racists.

The historical context is essential. Which is why it doesn't really affect you when your called a honkie, but call one black bloke in the pub a cotton picking **** and it can turn into something serious

I've heard that argument many times but how far in the past does this stuff have to be before we let it go ?
Should I still resent Germans, Romans and the French.
Harbouring historical resentment only hurts ones self ultimately.
Anyway didn't we liberate the Jews from Hitler and give them a homeland. And don't we keep many Chinese families in 4x4's by buying sweet and sour chicken balls most weekends. I rest my case.

Not really, they'd murdered 6m Jews by the time we got around to liberating them. Hardly the greatest liberation. Also, given most of the death camps were on the 'other side' of Europe, a lot of the liberating was done by the Red Army.

I suspect that white English people being a bit anti-semetic gets a lot less vitriol than say a right wing German or an Arab, simply because it runs deeper in the offending parties history.

My Grand dad died hating the Germans, showing that he could personally hold a grudge for 70 odd years. Didn't matter if they were born before or after the war, he had no time for them.

Prejudice and how people react to prejudice, is very personal. And no one race has ever had quite the level of persecution as the Jewish people (well not without effectively ceasing to exist as a people).

As for Israel, they took it through a protracted guerilla warfare / terrorist campaign.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Nov 14 5.18pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 4.58pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 4.16pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 2.54pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 2.30pm Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 2.06pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 1.23pm Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 1.21pm The fact that Whelen says he will resign as Wigan chairman is disgusting on his part. he is more or less saying what i said about Jewish and Chinese people is right. Your stuck in a time warp Dave and i hope you are charged. An interesting interpretation. What would you have him do ? He should resign off course but he should be resigning for offending the entire Chinese and Jewish community. Not saying if i am charged i will resign,Whelen saying he will resign if he is charged is him more or less justifying what he said about Jewish and Chinese people. Maybe he thinks that people are way to sensitive these days and are far to keen to jump on the bandwagon of condemnation. I would agree with that sentiment. I could be called a honky or a round eye mo fo all day long and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. racial descriptions of that sort just don't bother me and therefore they can't hurt me. I think the whole insult thing tends to jar less if your come from the group that did the 'persecuting and oppressing'. Its more akin to referring to the working class of Rochester as flag waving white van driving mild racists. The historical context is essential. Which is why it doesn't really affect you when your called a honkie, but call one black bloke in the pub a cotton picking ** and it can turn into something serious I've heard that argument many times but how far in the past does this stuff have to be before we let it go ? Should I still resent Germans, Romans and the French. Harbouring historical resentment only hurts ones self ultimately. Anyway didn't we liberate the Jews from Hitler** and give them a homeland. And don't we keep many Chinese families in 4x4's by buying sweet and sour chicken balls most weekends. I rest my case. Not really, they'd murdered 6m Jews by the time we got around to liberating them. Hardly the greatest liberation. Also, given most of the death camps were on the 'other side' of Europe, a lot of the liberating was done by the Red Army. I suspect that white English people being a bit anti-semetic gets a lot less vitriol than say a right wing German or an Arab, simply because it runs deeper in the offending parties history. My Grand dad died hating the Germans, showing that he could personally hold a grudge for 70 odd years. Didn't matter if they were born before or after the war, he had no time for them. Prejudice and how people react to prejudice, is very personal. And no one race has ever had quite the level of persecution as the Jewish people (well not without effectively ceasing to exist as a people). As for Israel, they took it through a protracted guerilla warfare / terrorist campaign. Your historical details are more or less correct. And it was quite reasonable for your grand dad to hate Germans but it wouldn't be reasonable for you to do so. That was really my point. If we put old grievances behind us and stop being so easily offended then perhaps the world just might be a better place.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Nov 14 5.18pm

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Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 4.58pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 4.16pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 2.54pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 2.30pm

Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 2.06pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 1.23pm

Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 1.21pm

The fact that Whelen says he will resign as Wigan chairman is disgusting on his part.

he is more or less saying what i said about Jewish and Chinese people is right.

Your stuck in a time warp Dave and i hope you are charged.

An interesting interpretation. What would you have him do ?

He should resign off course but he should be resigning for offending the entire Chinese and Jewish community.

Not saying if i am charged i will resign,Whelen saying he will resign if he is charged is him more or less justifying what he said about Jewish and Chinese people.

I suspect that white English people being a bit anti-semetic gets a lot less vitriol than say a right wing German or an Arab, simply because it runs deeper in the offending parties history.

My Grand dad died hating the Germans, showing that he could personally hold a grudge for 70 odd years. Didn't matter if they were born before or after the war, he had no time for them.

As for Israel, they took it through a protracted guerilla warfare / terrorist campaign.

Your historical details are more or less correct.
And it was quite reasonable for your grand dad to hate Germans but it wouldn't be reasonable for you to do so. That was really my point. If we put old grievances behind us and stop being so easily offended then perhaps the world just might be a better place.

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sydtheeagle England 24 Nov 14 5.20pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 4.58pm Not really, they'd murdered 6m Jews by the time we got around to liberating them. Hardly the greatest liberation. Also, given most of the death camps were on the 'other side' of Europe, a lot of the liberating was done by the Red Army. Absolutely correct. The Holocaust was largely ignored early in the war because the British upper classes were historically anti-semitic and Churchill, who recognised Hiter's greater threat, knew that for the general British public, protecting the Jewish population of Eastern Europe would not be an acceptable reason to enter the war. The same for America...millions of Jews had been exterminated at the time of Pearl Harbour. Real Western recognition of the Holocaust was belated; it really started in the late 50s and 60s and retrospectively has been the source of a considerable amount of Allied guilt. But this was not the case at the time. It is this guilt that, I'm afraid, the Israeli government frequently leverages to its advantage to abuse the Palestinian communities today. They protest that if we don't support them the State of Israel could be wiped out by its hostile neighbours but I am unaware of a single Israeli politician who actually believes that threat is remotely credible. Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.
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sydtheeagle

England 24 Nov 14 5.20pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 4.58pm

Absolutely correct. The Holocaust was largely ignored early in the war because the British upper classes were historically anti-semitic and Churchill, who recognised Hiter's greater threat, knew that for the general British public, protecting the Jewish population of Eastern Europe would not be an acceptable reason to enter the war. The same for America...millions of Jews had been exterminated at the time of Pearl Harbour.

Real Western recognition of the Holocaust was belated; it really started in the late 50s and 60s and retrospectively has been the source of a considerable amount of Allied guilt. But this was not the case at the time. It is this guilt that, I'm afraid, the Israeli government frequently leverages to its advantage to abuse the Palestinian communities today. They protest that if we don't support them the State of Israel could be wiped out by its hostile neighbours but I am unaware of a single Israeli politician who actually believes that threat is remotely credible.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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Seth On a pale blue dot 27 Nov 14 4.16pm
He's been charged by the FA, the BBC are reporting. EDIT: [Link] Dave Whelan: Wigan chairman charged by Football Association Wigan Athletic chairman Dave Whelan has been charged by the Football Association over comments he made about Jewish and Chinese people in an interview. More to follow. Edited by Seth (27 Nov 2014 4.25pm) "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 27 Nov 14 4.16pm

He's been charged by the FA, the BBC are reporting.

EDIT: [Link]

Dave Whelan: Wigan chairman charged by Football Association

Wigan Athletic chairman Dave Whelan has been charged by the Football Association over comments he made about Jewish and Chinese people in an interview.
More to follow.

Edited by Seth (27 Nov 2014 4.25pm)

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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sydtheeagle England 27 Nov 14 4.22pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.16pm He's been charged by the FA, the BBC are reporting. Yeah. Good as his word, he'll have resigned by now. Not. Scumbag. Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.
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sydtheeagle

England 27 Nov 14 4.22pm

Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.16pm

He's been charged by the FA, the BBC are reporting.

Yeah. Good as his word, he'll have resigned by now. Not. Scumbag.

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Nov 14 4.26pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 5.18pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 4.58pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 4.16pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 2.54pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 2.30pm Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 2.06pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 1.23pm Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 1.21pm The fact that Whelen says he will resign as Wigan chairman is disgusting on his part. he is more or less saying what i said about Jewish and Chinese people is right. Your stuck in a time warp Dave and i hope you are charged. An interesting interpretation. What would you have him do ? He should resign off course but he should be resigning for offending the entire Chinese and Jewish community. Not saying if i am charged i will resign,Whelen saying he will resign if he is charged is him more or less justifying what he said about Jewish and Chinese people. Maybe he thinks that people are way to sensitive these days and are far to keen to jump on the bandwagon of condemnation. I would agree with that sentiment. I could be called a honky or a round eye mo fo all day long and I wouldn't bat an eyelid. racial descriptions of that sort just don't bother me and therefore they can't hurt me. I think the whole insult thing tends to jar less if your come from the group that did the 'persecuting and oppressing'. Its more akin to referring to the working class of Rochester as flag waving white van driving mild racists. The historical context is essential. Which is why it doesn't really affect you when your called a honkie, but call one black bloke in the pub a cotton picking ** and it can turn into something serious I've heard that argument many times but how far in the past does this stuff have to be before we let it go ? Should I still resent Germans, Romans and the French. Harbouring historical resentment only hurts ones self ultimately. Anyway didn't we liberate the Jews from Hitler** and give them a homeland. And don't we keep many Chinese families in 4x4's by buying sweet and sour chicken balls most weekends. I rest my case. Not really, they'd murdered 6m Jews by the time we got around to liberating them. Hardly the greatest liberation. Also, given most of the death camps were on the 'other side' of Europe, a lot of the liberating was done by the Red Army. I suspect that white English people being a bit anti-semetic gets a lot less vitriol than say a right wing German or an Arab, simply because it runs deeper in the offending parties history. My Grand dad died hating the Germans, showing that he could personally hold a grudge for 70 odd years. Didn't matter if they were born before or after the war, he had no time for them. Prejudice and how people react to prejudice, is very personal. And no one race has ever had quite the level of persecution as the Jewish people (well not without effectively ceasing to exist as a people). As for Israel, they took it through a protracted guerilla warfare / terrorist campaign. Your historical details are more or less correct. And it was quite reasonable for your grand dad to hate Germans but it wouldn't be reasonable for you to do so. That was really my point. If we put old grievances behind us and stop being so easily offended then perhaps the world just might be a better place. I don't think it was very reasonable of him, to be honest, largely it was irrational and a means of him potentially justifying the fact he'd contributed towards killing a load of them. A lot of people hated the Germans because of lives lost in the bombings of London. But then the same rule should apply, and we, as the Allies, did a far more effective job of leveling German cities (which presumably also we're full of women and children). Hard probably to live with that contradiction unless you can rationalize it with some kind of playground logic. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 27 Nov 14 4.26pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 5.18pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 4.58pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 4.16pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 Nov 2014 2.54pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 2.30pm

Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 2.06pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 24 Nov 2014 1.23pm

Quote black eagle. at 24 Nov 2014 1.21pm

The fact that Whelen says he will resign as Wigan chairman is disgusting on his part.

he is more or less saying what i said about Jewish and Chinese people is right.

Your stuck in a time warp Dave and i hope you are charged.

An interesting interpretation. What would you have him do ?

He should resign off course but he should be resigning for offending the entire Chinese and Jewish community.

Not saying if i am charged i will resign,Whelen saying he will resign if he is charged is him more or less justifying what he said about Jewish and Chinese people.

I suspect that white English people being a bit anti-semetic gets a lot less vitriol than say a right wing German or an Arab, simply because it runs deeper in the offending parties history.

My Grand dad died hating the Germans, showing that he could personally hold a grudge for 70 odd years. Didn't matter if they were born before or after the war, he had no time for them.

As for Israel, they took it through a protracted guerilla warfare / terrorist campaign.

I don't think it was very reasonable of him, to be honest, largely it was irrational and a means of him potentially justifying the fact he'd contributed towards killing a load of them.

A lot of people hated the Germans because of lives lost in the bombings of London. But then the same rule should apply, and we, as the Allies, did a far more effective job of leveling German cities (which presumably also we're full of women and children).

Hard probably to live with that contradiction unless you can rationalize it with some kind of playground logic.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Seth On a pale blue dot 27 Nov 14 4.37pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 27 Nov 2014 4.22pm Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.16pm He's been charged by the FA, the BBC are reporting. Yeah. Good as his word, he'll have resigned by now. Not. Scumbag. To be fair to the old racist he said he'd resign if he was found guilty so we'll have to wait and see how the case pans out before demanding he does the honourable thing and falls on his sword. Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity? "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 27 Nov 14 4.37pm

Quote sydtheeagle at 27 Nov 2014 4.22pm

Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.16pm

He's been charged by the FA, the BBC are reporting.

Yeah. Good as his word, he'll have resigned by now. Not. Scumbag.

To be fair to the old racist he said he'd resign if he was found guilty so we'll have to wait and see how the case pans out before demanding he does the honourable thing and falls on his sword.

Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity?

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Midlands Eagle 27 Nov 14 4.45pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.37pm Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity? I'm guessing that one might be a bit of a legal minefield. I know that the FA think that they are above the law but they aren't and I'm not sure that they can legally sanction someone for sending texts that they don't approve of to a friend
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Midlands Eagle

27 Nov 14 4.45pm

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Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.37pm

Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity?

I'm guessing that one might be a bit of a legal minefield. I know that the FA think that they are above the law but they aren't and I'm not sure that they can legally sanction someone for sending texts that they don't approve of to a friend

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Seth On a pale blue dot 27 Nov 14 4.47pm
Quote Ian J at 27 Nov 2014 4.45pm Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.37pm Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity? I'm guessing that one might be a bit of a legal minefield. I know that the FA think that they are above the law but they aren't and I'm not sure that they can legally sanction someone for sending texts that they don't approve of to a friend Fair enough, the MM/IM case is more complex, but it's been dragging on for weeks now and the FA really need to get their a*ses into gear before they look even more like a bunch of incompetent muppets than they already do, if that's possible. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 27 Nov 14 4.47pm

Quote Ian J at 27 Nov 2014 4.45pm

Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.37pm

Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity?

Fair enough, the MM/IM case is more complex, but it's been dragging on for weeks now and the FA really need to get their a*ses into gear before they look even more like a bunch of incompetent muppets than they already do, if that's possible.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Midlands Eagle 27 Nov 14 5.55pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.47pm Quote Ian J at 27 Nov 2014 4.45pm Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.37pm Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity? I'm guessing that one might be a bit of a legal minefield. I know that the FA think that they are above the law but they aren't and I'm not sure that they can legally sanction someone for sending texts that they don't approve of to a friend Fair enough, the MM/IM case is more complex, but it's been dragging on for weeks now and the FA really need to get their a*ses into gear before they look even more like a bunch of incompetent muppets than they already do, if that's possible. I think that they are hoping that if they say nothing it will just go away
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Midlands Eagle

27 Nov 14 5.55pm

Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.47pm

Quote Ian J at 27 Nov 2014 4.45pm

Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.37pm

Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity?

I think that they are hoping that if they say nothing it will just go away

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Stuk Top half 27 Nov 14 8.02pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.37pm Quote sydtheeagle at 27 Nov 2014 4.22pm Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.16pm He's been charged by the FA, the BBC are reporting. Yeah. Good as his word, he'll have resigned by now. Not. Scumbag. To be fair to the old racist he said he'd resign if he was found guilty so we'll have to wait and see how the case pans out before demanding he does the honourable thing and falls on his sword. Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity? I'm sure that quote I saw from him was if he was charged, not if he was found guilty. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 27 Nov 14 8.02pm

Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.37pm

Quote sydtheeagle at 27 Nov 2014 4.22pm

Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2014 4.16pm

He's been charged by the FA, the BBC are reporting.

Yeah. Good as his word, he'll have resigned by now. Not. Scumbag.

To be fair to the old racist he said he'd resign if he was found guilty so we'll have to wait and see how the case pans out before demanding he does the honourable thing and falls on his sword.

Interesting the FA have acted so quickly over this but the Mackay/Moody investigation rumbles on at a snail's pace. I wonder why the disparity?

I'm sure that quote I saw from him was if he was charged, not if he was found guilty.

Optimistic as ever

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