I struggle to even get close to this - Brexit before Brexit?

Making sense as usual I see Steely.

Railways can last for hundreds of years....How long does 39 billion last on our current contributions.

Well, we were paying at least 14 billion a year in 2014.

I think the most remainer friendly review of UK contributions to the EU put it that UK receives £1 for every £1.55 given.

Others estimates aren't as generous.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Of course I am not certain just a voter after all and it depends on what concessions the EU offers. That was the point of last nights votes Parliament now has a way forward we may not like it and if the EU refuse to negotiate then it is irrelevant.

The EU are playing chicken knowing that the deal as it stands will not get through Parliament.

Now in your later post you suggest that maybe the EU just wants rid of us and I am sympathetic to that idea. You are correct that we have been holding the EU back every time they try to make changes.

So if they actually want us to "crash out" then that attitude makes sense. If they genuinely want a deal then I think they run the risk of over playing their hand.

Anyway there is posturing on both side so until a deal is agreed or negotiations are called off we should take public statements with a pinch of salt.

One more point

No I was referring to the idea that recognising one's weaknesses is in fact a strength, whilst ploughing on as if you have the upper hand when in fact you're completely under the cosh is a weakness.

Tony Blair: The backstop isn't the only flaw in the PM's Brexit deal. She's effectively saying 'Let's get on the train but we don't know the destination. We'll work it out after leaving'.

We were always promised we'd know the future relationship with the EU before leaving.

But we don't, a few weeks before some type of exit, we just don't have a clue.

It's like moving house, but not knowing where your new address is.

Nobody would do that, but leave would.

So would the conservative party, parliament, the media, and there is no figure to step in and make us see sense.

It's also deeply ironic, given the wonderful self-amending treaties his piece of s*** party signed us up to.

'Let's get on the train but we don't know the destination. We'll work it out after leaving'

So, Remainers. What's the destination for the EU train you wanted us on?

Is it the "Clegg Dangerous Fantasy" station?
Cameron's "non-existent reforming deal" station?
The Schuman-model station?
The hardcore leftist station (choo choo!)?
The Spinelli station with that raving ranting Verhoft*** as the Fat Controller?
The "remain but don't even bother reforming, because they don't listen, but I'm fine being a non-country" station?
The soft-remain "oh, they would never force us to adopt the euro, drop the rebate, join their army, despite all efforts to federalise and assimilate at breakneck speed" station?

What station did all the Remainiacs on here vote to pull into, and why do you think you own the tracks that decide the route of the train, once you've agreed to board? When were you ever asked what your destination was?

One thing is sure - with a Remain vote - there IS no "work it out after remaining". As Herr Juncker tells us: "there can be no democratic choice against the European (sic) treaties." It is always "more Europe". You just don't get to choose what that means.

Thank f*** we pulled the emergency stop in time to get off. I'll take the car thanks. It's not stuck on rails to a destination I have no choice and no interest in.