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Teddy Eagle 09 Aug 23 3.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's sad to see that the level of dishonesty and spreading of misinformation present in this thread from the start remains unabated and untouched by the benefit of hindsight. Nobody ever suggested that the virus could be controlled by the measures being taken. What happened was to find ways, in an unknown and fast-developing, situation, to reduce exposure and mitigate the impact until the more effective impact of vaccination was available. That other "theories" were promoted by sceptics was as inevitable as they are irrelevant. Our government, along with many others, decided not to adopt what looked like a high-risk strategy. They knew the cost would be high, but decided that the cost of not doing it was higher. That information campaigns encouraged cooperation and compliance was hardly surprising or unneeded. It's what a government does to make policy effective. The alternatives were discussed in the MSM but were quickly dismissed for not being viable, in the circumstances prevailing in the UK. Of course that doesn't stop some still banging on about it now and claiming things would be better if only they had been listened to. We might have won the Champions League if I had been appointed manager 10 years ago. It seems as likely to me but as neither happened we will never know, hence it's irrelevant. The enquiry is the place to review events and for the lessons to be learned. Cool heads there will deliver some useful guidance for any future similar situations. Why would anyone doubt the government response when it's been so outstanding in every other aspect for the last few years.
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Badger11 Beckenham 09 Aug 23 3.15pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's sad to see that the level of dishonesty and spreading of misinformation present in this thread from the start remains unabated and untouched by the benefit of hindsight. Nobody ever suggested that the virus could be controlled by the measures being taken. What happened was to find ways, in an unknown and fast-developing, situation, to reduce exposure and mitigate the impact until the more effective impact of vaccination was available. That other "theories" were promoted by sceptics was as inevitable as they are irrelevant. Our government, along with many others, decided not to adopt what looked like a high-risk strategy. They knew the cost would be high, but decided that the cost of not doing it was higher. That information campaigns encouraged cooperation and compliance was hardly surprising or unneeded. It's what a government does to make policy effective. The alternatives were discussed in the MSM but were quickly dismissed for not being viable, in the circumstances prevailing in the UK. Of course that doesn't stop some still banging on about it now and claiming things would be better if only they had been listened to. We might have won the Champions League if I had been appointed manager 10 years ago. It seems as likely to me but as neither happened we will never know, hence it's irrelevant. The enquiry is the place to review events and for the lessons to be learned. Cool heads there will deliver some useful guidance for any future similar situations. I think many of us already know the conclusions they just copy and paste from every other government enquiry. "Mistakes were made lessons have been learned" (somebody got rich) blah blah until the next time. Edited by Badger11 (09 Aug 2023 3.16pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Aug 23 4.48pm | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I think many of us already know the conclusions they just copy and paste from every other government enquiry. "Mistakes were made lessons have been learned" (somebody got rich) blah blah until the next time. Edited by Badger11 (09 Aug 2023 3.16pm) Do you think this level of cynicism is going to help anyone? I don’t! I don’t think it either justified or helpful. I have no doubt that we both need to improve our system and those who work within it on our behalf, but I refuse to believe that most of those doing so now are only in it for themselves. It’s just not my experience. If change is needed, help to change it!
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Aug 23 4.49pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Why would anyone doubt the government response when it's been so outstanding in every other aspect for the last few years. My previous reply applies equally to this.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Teddy Eagle 09 Aug 23 5.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
My previous reply applies equally to this. So does mine.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Aug 23 5.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
So does mine. I don’t see how! Yours was directed at the government. Mine was at cynical posts here. So it’s truly obscurantic.
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Teddy Eagle 09 Aug 23 5.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I don’t see how! Yours was directed at the government. Mine was at cynical posts here. So it’s truly obscurantic. Not sure how when there have been untold posts criticising literally every aspect of the government except how they handled Covid which was above and beyond.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Aug 23 11.25pm | |
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There has been a lot of references to the videos produced by Dr John Campbell in this thread, often with links to them being provided. One of the most frequent claims being made for him has been that he always uses official statistics and publications as the source for his analyses, thus making them authentic. I, as will be realised, disagree. I think he started off in a well meaning way to use his teaching skills to inform others about the new danger we all were suddenly confronted with but then came to realise he had stumbled on a rich vein of potential wealth which he could mine by providing nuggets of misinformation to the sceptical. So he has, and in so doing has attracted a huge following which must have made him very rich. Tonight I stumbled on the video I link below, when looking for something else. I urge everyone, even those who have previously regarded him as a paragon of virtue and bringer of truth, to watch this in full. It takes a while, but it ought to cause a re-evaluation by even the most previously devoted and convinced follower:-
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Teddy Eagle 09 Aug 23 11.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There has been a lot of references to the videos produced by Dr John Campbell in this thread, often with links to them being provided. One of the most frequent claims being made for him has been that he always uses official statistics and publications as the source for his analyses, thus making them authentic. I, as will be realised, disagree. I think he started off in a well meaning way to use his teaching skills to inform others about the new danger we all were suddenly confronted with but then came to realise he had stumbled on a rich vein of potential wealth which he could mine by providing nuggets of misinformation to the sceptical. So he has, and in so doing has attracted a huge following which must have made him very rich. Tonight I stumbled on the video I link below, when looking for something else. I urge everyone, even those who have previously regarded him as a paragon of virtue and bringer of truth, to watch this in full. It takes a while, but it ought to cause a re-evaluation by even the most previously devoted and convinced follower:- Whereas admirers of Neil Ferguson are completely sure of his omniscience.
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Stirlingsays 10 Aug 23 12.59am | |
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I will check out these claims over the next few days before reporting back.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Aug 23 8.11am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Whereas admirers of Neil Ferguson are completely sure of his omniscience. That’s unrelated, diversionary whataboutism! I am unaware of anyone posting comments about Ferguson here, let alone suggesting he is omnipotent or posting links to videos. In fact he has had a stella career which was blighted by two events during the pandemic. The report he authored in the early days was seen, with hindsight, to under estimate the capacity of people to take avoiding actions themselves and led the government to take some impulsive decisions. This is exactly what the current enquiry will want to examine so that checks and balances are introduced to avoid over reliance on single sources. Ferguson then made a personal error during lockdown which resulted in him quitting as a member of SAGE though his department continues to provide advice to it. Making an error in good faith is completely different to deliberately spreading misinformation for gain. As you will realise if you watch, in full, the presentation from Professor Greg Tucker Kellogg that I provided the link to.
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Teddy Eagle 10 Aug 23 9.16am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That’s unrelated, diversionary whataboutism! I am unaware of anyone posting comments about Ferguson here, let alone suggesting he is omnipotent or posting links to videos. In fact he has had a stella career which was blighted by two events during the pandemic. The report he authored in the early days was seen, with hindsight, to under estimate the capacity of people to take avoiding actions themselves and led the government to take some impulsive decisions. This is exactly what the current enquiry will want to examine so that checks and balances are introduced to avoid over reliance on single sources. Ferguson then made a personal error during lockdown which resulted in him quitting as a member of SAGE though his department continues to provide advice to it. Making an error in good faith is completely different to deliberately spreading misinformation for gain. As you will realise if you watch, in full, the presentation from Professor Greg Tucker Kellogg that I provided the link to. Omniscient not omnipotent but seeing the influence he had he might as well be omnipotent. His particular brand of wildly inaccurate guesswork has cost the country dear. Bird flu? Wrong.
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