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ChrisGC Wantage 27 Jan 19 2.41pm
Originally posted by steve1984 Less good than you would if you said "if you don't give me a deal I'll go any buy one somewhere else." It works well as long as you can actually find one somewhere of equivalent value. But if you can't... You need to learn how to negotiate with a monopoly supplier. Threatening to walk away isn't going to get you anywhere. None of the markets you propose as alternatives to the EU are suitable substitutes. Monopoly supplier? What do you base that on? What do they sell that we can't buy elsewhere? The trade deficit is massively in our favour. All of the nations mentioned made immediate and strong overtures towards us as soon as the result was announced. May ignored them. The fact is that if we leave with no divorce payment, which there is no obligation to pay, the squeeze on Germany and France would be so great that the whole EU would have potentially collapsed. We should have made no hint at interest in negotiating and instead sought partners elsewhere, forcing France and Germany into a blink first game of coming to us to negotiate bilateral trade agreements. Can you imagine Germany losing 15% of its car sales over night alone? They'd be absolutely shafted. Add onto that the fact that the bulk of our annual contribution shortfall is coming their way and would they stay? Especially considering the weak pound against the euro undermines the appeal of their products to third parties now, and they'd be restricted by EU regulations whereas we wouldn't be. Overall, I'm struggling to see how a well managed withdrawal wouldn't be a roaring success. It's part of the reason I voted to leave. Edited by ChrisGC (27 Jan 2019 2.43pm)
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ChrisGC

Wantage 27 Jan 19 2.41pm

Originally posted by steve1984

Less good than you would if you said "if you don't give me a deal I'll go any buy one somewhere else."

It works well as long as you can actually find one somewhere of equivalent value. But if you can't...

You need to learn how to negotiate with a monopoly supplier. Threatening to walk away isn't going to get you anywhere.

None of the markets you propose as alternatives to the EU are suitable substitutes.

Monopoly supplier? What do you base that on? What do they sell that we can't buy elsewhere? The trade deficit is massively in our favour. All of the nations mentioned made immediate and strong overtures towards us as soon as the result was announced. May ignored them.

The fact is that if we leave with no divorce payment, which there is no obligation to pay, the squeeze on Germany and France would be so great that the whole EU would have potentially collapsed.

We should have made no hint at interest in negotiating and instead sought partners elsewhere, forcing France and Germany into a blink first game of coming to us to negotiate bilateral trade agreements.

Can you imagine Germany losing 15% of its car sales over night alone? They'd be absolutely shafted. Add onto that the fact that the bulk of our annual contribution shortfall is coming their way and would they stay? Especially considering the weak pound against the euro undermines the appeal of their products to third parties now, and they'd be restricted by EU regulations whereas we wouldn't be.

Overall, I'm struggling to see how a well managed withdrawal wouldn't be a roaring success. It's part of the reason I voted to leave.

Edited by ChrisGC (27 Jan 2019 2.43pm)

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Badger11 Beckenham 27 Jan 19 3.04pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Sigh. You can't have read around very much, can you? [Link] Literally the very first analysis, as close to an exit-poll as was possible, and by far the most comprehensive immediate post-voting gauge of sentiment, before you lot started your very expensive misinformation war that you've waged for the past 2.5 years. It's called confirmation bias, by the way. You can't take a pill for it. If that survey is correct then most people who voted to Remain were concerned “the risks of voting to leave the EU looked too great when it came to things like the economy, jobs and prices” (43%). That is hardly a ringing endorsement of the EU. And yet Brexiteers are told we are the negative ones. Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 27 Jan 19 3.04pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Sigh. You can't have read around very much, can you?

[Link]

Literally the very first analysis, as close to an exit-poll as was possible, and by far the most comprehensive immediate post-voting gauge of sentiment, before you lot started your very expensive misinformation war that you've waged for the past 2.5 years.

It's called confirmation bias, by the way. You can't take a pill for it.

If that survey is correct then most people who voted to Remain were concerned “the risks of voting to leave the EU looked too great when it came to things like the economy, jobs and prices” (43%).

That is hardly a ringing endorsement of the EU. And yet Brexiteers are told we are the negative ones.

Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”.

One more point

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steve1984 27 Jan 19 3.36pm
Originally posted by ChrisGC Can you imagine Germany losing 15% of its car sales over night alone? They'd be absolutely shafted. 15% is indeed a very big number. However the UK buys less than 3% of new cars globally and that share of the market is going south. In reality the % of total German cars sold in the UK is somewhere between 6-8% which is still a very big number. However even if there's a no deal we'll still buy German cars but let's say 30% less. So 7% market share becomes 5%. Which means VAG need to find the missing 2% of their volume from another market. Which could be India or China. So who will blink first? Before entering into a negotiation it is as well to do some homework. Edited by steve1984 (27 Jan 2019 3.37pm)
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steve1984 27 Jan 19 3.36pm

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Can you imagine Germany losing 15% of its car sales over night alone? They'd be absolutely shafted.

15% is indeed a very big number. However the UK buys less than 3% of new cars globally and that share of the market is going south.

In reality the % of total German cars sold in the UK is somewhere between 6-8% which is still a very big number. However even if there's a no deal we'll still buy German cars but let's say 30% less.

So 7% market share becomes 5%. Which means VAG need to find the missing 2% of their volume from another market. Which could be India or China.

So who will blink first?

Before entering into a negotiation it is as well to do some homework.

Edited by steve1984 (27 Jan 2019 3.37pm)

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Pussay Patrol 27 Jan 19 3.39pm
Originally posted by Matov The 'event' on June 23rd was a legitimate democratic vote. The very core of how our society is meant to function. To not implement that decision undermines the very basis on which our society is meant to define itself. If we do not leave the EU based on that decision, why should I ever bother voting again? Why should I have any good faith that voting means anything anymore? You're starting to sound like a broken record your problem is you are blinkered, you refuse to look at the bigger picture and assess this scenario objectively. You're only interested in the triumphalism of the vote decision You wouldn't be very good in a jury Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah
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Pussay Patrol

27 Jan 19 3.39pm

Originally posted by Matov

The 'event' on June 23rd was a legitimate democratic vote. The very core of how our society is meant to function.

To not implement that decision undermines the very basis on which our society is meant to define itself.

If we do not leave the EU based on that decision, why should I ever bother voting again? Why should I have any good faith that voting means anything anymore?

You're starting to sound like a broken record

your problem is you are blinkered, you refuse to look at the bigger picture and assess this scenario objectively. You're only interested in the triumphalism of the vote decision

You wouldn't be very good in a jury

Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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.TUX. 27 Jan 19 3.47pm
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol You're starting to sound like a broken record your problem is you are blinkered, you refuse to look at the bigger picture and assess this scenario objectively. You're only interested in the triumphalism of the vote decision You wouldn't be very good in a jury Comedy gold Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

27 Jan 19 3.47pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

You're starting to sound like a broken record

your problem is you are blinkered, you refuse to look at the bigger picture and assess this scenario objectively. You're only interested in the triumphalism of the vote decision

You wouldn't be very good in a jury

Comedy gold

Buy Litecoin.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Jan 19 3.47pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Sigh. You can't have read around very much, can you? [Link] Literally the very first analysis, as close to an exit-poll as was possible, and by far the most comprehensive immediate post-voting gauge of sentiment, before you lot started your very expensive misinformation war that you've waged for the past 2.5 years. It's called confirmation bias, by the way. You can't take a pill for it. I saw that initial poll too but subsequent ones have drilled down into what people really meant by “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. It turns out that an awful lot of that is code for reducing immigration but people didn't like to be too open about it. You are another who seeks to describe uncomfortable truths as "misinformation". Oh I know what confirmation bias is. I have seen tons of it from Leave supporters who cannot see any truth in anything that doesn't match their preconceptions. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Jan 19 3.47pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Sigh. You can't have read around very much, can you?

[Link]

It's called confirmation bias, by the way. You can't take a pill for it.

I saw that initial poll too but subsequent ones have drilled down into what people really meant by “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. It turns out that an awful lot of that is code for reducing immigration but people didn't like to be too open about it.

You are another who seeks to describe uncomfortable truths as "misinformation".

Oh I know what confirmation bias is. I have seen tons of it from Leave supporters who cannot see any truth in anything that doesn't match their preconceptions.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Pussay Patrol 27 Jan 19 3.48pm
Originally posted by steve1984 15% is indeed a very big number. However the UK buys less than 3% of new cars globally and that share of the market is going south. In reality the % of total German cars sold in the UK is somewhere between 6-8% which is still a very big number. However even if there's a no deal we'll still buy German cars but let's say 30% less. So 7% market share becomes 5%. Which means VAG need to find the missing 2% of their volume from another market. Which could be India or China. So who will blink first? Before entering into a negotiation it is as well to do some homework. Edited by steve1984 (27 Jan 2019 3.37pm) That's the leavers who still believe the lie 'they need us more than we need them' So UK consumers are happy to pay 20-30% more for German cars? what about People who already own them and need the parts, and servicing? all that will increase, what about the people that are employed here? In dealerships and service centres? What about Mini? It's a double edged sword in which we would be just as worse off if not more Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah
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Pussay Patrol

27 Jan 19 3.48pm

Originally posted by steve1984

15% is indeed a very big number. However the UK buys less than 3% of new cars globally and that share of the market is going south.

In reality the % of total German cars sold in the UK is somewhere between 6-8% which is still a very big number. However even if there's a no deal we'll still buy German cars but let's say 30% less.

So 7% market share becomes 5%. Which means VAG need to find the missing 2% of their volume from another market. Which could be India or China.

So who will blink first?

Before entering into a negotiation it is as well to do some homework.

Edited by steve1984 (27 Jan 2019 3.37pm)

That's the leavers who still believe the lie 'they need us more than we need them'

So UK consumers are happy to pay 20-30% more for German cars? what about People who already own them and need the parts, and servicing? all that will increase, what about the people that are employed here? In dealerships and service centres? What about Mini?

It's a double edged sword in which we would be just as worse off if not more

Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Jan 19 3.55pm
Originally posted by ChrisGC Stating a fact isn't an insult. Back on point: Please explain why you think an MP's job is that of a dictator, and not as a representative of their constituents, as your own link States in summary. What "fact"? The most you have ever posted are opinions and assertions. Claiming something as a fact doesn't make it so. I neither think a MP's job is a dictator nor find any such reference nor a summary in the link I provided. All you need to read is the first two paragraphs titled "The Role of the Member". For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Jan 19 3.55pm

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Stating a fact isn't an insult.

Back on point:

Please explain why you think an MP's job is that of a dictator, and not as a representative of their constituents, as your own link States in summary.

What "fact"? The most you have ever posted are opinions and assertions. Claiming something as a fact doesn't make it so.

I neither think a MP's job is a dictator nor find any such reference nor a summary in the link I provided. All you need to read is the first two paragraphs titled "The Role of the Member".

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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.TUX. 27 Jan 19 3.57pm
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol That's the leavers who still believe the lie 'they need us more than we need them' So UK consumers are happy to pay 20-30% more for German cars? what about People who already own them and need the parts, and servicing? all that will increase, what about the people that are employed here? In dealerships and service centres? What about Mini? It's a double edged sword in which we would be just as worse off if not more While you're going 'German' atm, what's your take on their current economical situation? Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

27 Jan 19 3.57pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

That's the leavers who still believe the lie 'they need us more than we need them'

It's a double edged sword in which we would be just as worse off if not more

While you're going 'German' atm, what's your take on their current economical situation?

Buy Litecoin.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 27 Jan 19 4.10pm
The bottom line is, there was a democratic vote, the result of which some people simply refuse to accept. Taking this simple and glaringly obvious concept on board, this thread now consists of 329 pages (at 50 posts per page), a large percentage of which is a lot of moaning and grizzling about that result. It’s democracy, fellas. Don’t you like democracy? Because it seems to me that you’re all a bunch of really bad losers. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 27 Jan 19 4.10pm

The bottom line is, there was a democratic vote, the result of which some people simply refuse to accept.

Taking this simple and glaringly obvious concept on board, this thread now consists of 329 pages (at 50 posts per page), a large percentage of which is a lot of moaning and grizzling about that result.

It’s democracy, fellas. Don’t you like democracy? Because it seems to me that you’re all a bunch of really bad losers.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Stirlingsays 27 Jan 19 4.21pm
We've had record foreign investment but now apparently every time we get jobs going aboard it's Brexit......but when jobs are made here.....nothing. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Jan 19 4.21pm

We've had record foreign investment but now apparently every time we get jobs going aboard it's Brexit......but when jobs are made here.....nothing.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Pussay Patrol 27 Jan 19 5.13pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt The bottom line is, there was a democratic vote, the result of which some people simply refuse to accept. Taking this simple and glaringly obvious concept on board, this thread now consists of 329 pages (at 50 posts per page), a large percentage of which is a lot of moaning and grizzling about that result. It’s democracy, fellas. Don’t you like democracy? Because it seems to me that you’re all a bunch of really bad losers. Would be great if things were that straightforward Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah
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Pussay Patrol

27 Jan 19 5.13pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

The bottom line is, there was a democratic vote, the result of which some people simply refuse to accept.

It’s democracy, fellas. Don’t you like democracy? Because it seems to me that you’re all a bunch of really bad losers.

Would be great if things were that straightforward

Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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