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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 steeleye20  Croydon 22 Jan 19 12.37pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's the Brexiteers who were conned! Conned by false promises, the greed of those who can profit, the desire of Putin to break up the EU and reclaim the eastern European states and media barons with personal agendas. Even small contracts allow for a "cooling off" period these days so that you can reflect on your decision and cancel it if new information is found, or changed circumstances occur. A Brexit is a pretty big contract with implications for decades ahead which will affect many future generations. So to reconfirm, or deny, the original decision seems perfectly logical in these circumstances. Much has changed since 2016. People are more aware and the world has moved on. People are allowed to change their mind. Decisions made under duress can be null and voided and there is a strong argument to be made that the 2016 referendum contained elements of duress. I want our elected representatives to make the final decision but if they want to consult the people first to find out if there is a substantial majority, one way or the other, then fine. Anything less than a 2/3rds majority either way ought to require Parliament to come to a view, no matter how long that takes. The referendum was so flawed but the public voted to remain in the EEC in 1975 by giving 'their whole-hearted consent' It follows therefore, that this 'whole-hearted consent' should be necessary to leave, and 52/48 just does not cut it. That's basically where we still are and probably will be for years to come. A two-thirds majority could not be reasonably argued It's painful to watch so many MPs going through the motions so unable to actually come out that they want to stay, which is I believe reflective of how the public are feeling.
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| Rubin 22 Jan 19 12.41pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
17m people did not vote for a no deal Brexit Only a lunatic would want that Stop lying.
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| Midlands Eagle 22 Jan 19 12.42pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
What is the problem some Brexiteers have in having a time period to leave? Why the rush? Why the desperate need for a hard exit? What's wrong with including a free trade deal with the EU rather than leaving without one and then having to start discussions for a new trade deal anew but with reduced bargaining power? I don't get it? Educate me. I'm sure that we would all like a free trade deal with the EU but it would probably come with too many other strings attached that would be unacceptable
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| Stirlingsays 22 Jan 19 12.51pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
What is the problem some Brexiteers have in having a time period to leave? Why the rush? Why the desperate need for a hard exit? What's wrong with including a free trade deal with the EU rather than leaving without one and then having to start discussions for a new trade deal anew but with reduced bargaining power? I don't get it? Educate me. The referendum gave a majority decision in favour of leaving. That is that mandate. However, the question was so simple; but the consequence is a hugely complex process with so many moving parts. There is no mandate in how that exit is to occur. Thus, the Tories promised a "smooth and orderly" exit. That is their mandate. And I think they are trying to achieve that within a bewilderingly difficult and fractious factual matrix where husband and wife don't agree on the best solution, let alone those MPs who represent the people. The best solution would be to extend Art 50 and somehow find a deal that Parliament can present to the EU for them to consider and hopefully compromise. And that is the key word. My working life is all about negotiating deals. Both parties generally end up moderately unhappy; but business goes on. There, and I am a staunch remainer who is not advocating a new vote. All very sensible. But get with the times Silvertop! My brother was in the now defunked (thanks Tories cira 1993) 17th/21st Lancers...which along with the 16th/5th Queen's Royal Lancers became the now Queen's Royal Lancers Anyway they had a motto....'Death or Glory'. So in other words you are either metaphorically a part of the charge or you sit on the sofa with a white feather. Victory or defeat.....The time for two moderately unhappy parties belongs to centralists whose time...rightly or wrongly has been and gone. My tongue is only moderately in cheek. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jan 2019 12.51pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| chris123 hove actually 22 Jan 19 1.02pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's the Brexiteers who were conned! Conned by false promises, the greed of those who can profit, the desire of Putin to break up the EU and reclaim the eastern European states and media barons with personal agendas. Even small contracts allow for a "cooling off" period these days so that you can reflect on your decision and cancel it if new information is found, or changed circumstances occur. A Brexit is a pretty big contract with implications for decades ahead which will affect many future generations. So to reconfirm, or deny, the original decision seems perfectly logical in these circumstances. Much has changed since 2016. People are more aware and the world has moved on. People are allowed to change their mind. Decisions made under duress can be null and voided and there is a strong argument to be made that the 2016 referendum contained elements of duress. I want our elected representatives to make the final decision but if they want to consult the people first to find out if there is a substantial majority, one way or the other, then fine. Anything less than a 2/3rds majority either way ought to require Parliament to come to a view, no matter how long that takes. You should start stocking on tinned spam.
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cryrst  The garden of England 22 Jan 19 1.20pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
All very sensible. But get with the times Silvertop! My brother was in the now defunked (thanks Tories cira 1993) 17th/21st Lancers...which along with the 16th/5th Queen's Royal Lancers became the now Queen's Royal Lancers Anyway they had a motto....'Death or Glory'. So in other words you are either metaphorically a part of the charge or you sit on the sofa with a white feather. Victory or defeat.....The time for two moderately unhappy parties belongs to centralists whose time...rightly or wrongly has been and gone. My tongue is only moderately in cheek. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jan 2019 12.51pm) That only fits brexit voters though as remainers never signed up.
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| steve1984 22 Jan 19 1.22pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'Death or Glory'. "He who lives by the sword..." My tongue is not in my cheek, I hope for your kid's sake you have some life insurance. [Tweet Link]
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| Midlands Eagle 22 Jan 19 1.32pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
Commission spokesman says that if there's a no deal Brexit 'you will have a hard border' in Ireland Well at least that will solve the problem of who is going to pay for it It's comments like the above that make me even more convinced that we need to escape the clutches of these unelected bully boys
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| steve1984 22 Jan 19 1.44pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Well at least that will solve the problem of who is going to pay for it It's comments like the above that make me even more convinced that we need to escape the clutches of these unelected bully boys It's a free trade area. If you leave it then there's a border. WTF are you on? It's pretty obvious to everyone except most of the planks on here it would seem. Edited by steve1984 (22 Jan 2019 1.48pm)
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Attachment: | chris123 hove actually 22 Jan 19 1.52pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
"He who lives by the sword..." My tongue is not in my cheek, I hope for your kid's sake you have some life insurance. [Tweet Link]Never - the Good Friday Agreement or it ilk will prevail. Anyone who rememembers the troubles will never contenance a border.
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| steve1984 22 Jan 19 1.57pm | |
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The EU insists on a customs border at it's borders. Kind of obvious.
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| Stirlingsays 22 Jan 19 2.02pm |
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Originally posted by steve1984
"He who lives by the sword..." My tongue is not in my cheek, I hope for your kid's sake you have some life insurance. [Tweet Link]Everything you have was enabled by those who fought. Run run away little bird....stick another nationality on and slag them off as well.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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