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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 steeleye20  Croydon 20 Jan 19 6.05pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Oh, I read it but it seems that you cannot have read it all because your quote is not 100% correct and is well out of context. Context is essential if you are going to ascertain the true meaning. She went on to say "that Germany had given up part of its sovereign rights to the European Union. "But the states are the masters of the treaties. This requires always the backing and the decision of the national parliament. The heart of democracy is parliament"". Which is pretty much what I was arguing! Merkel speaks for herself and not the EU, who could not force us to give up anything. We could decide to compromise and co-operate but that is a very different matter. Really Germany should get Merkel out now and not allow her self-appointed 2 year retirement deal. She has been there too long and is getting increasingly dotty. Her successor looks the real deal, impressive. Women PMs are a real pain, they think their countries cannot survive without them. Reminds me of my first...…
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| Stirlingsays 20 Jan 19 6.08pm |
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There should be a rule barring leaders of countries if they are childless.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| chris123 hove actually 20 Jan 19 6.10pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
There should be a rule barring leaders of countries if they are childless. And East German.
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Pussay Patrol  20 Jan 19 6.30pm |
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Looks like Farage might make a return
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 20 Jan 19 6.44pm |
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That will put the cat amongst the pigeons. This is a big plus for us Brexiteers. If there is a GE I would not vote UKIP as I don't like where they are going. I might vote Tory if my MP continues to play ball. However I would like another option and hopefully Farage is providing that. Just been listening to a pundit of what he thinks May will do tomorrow. He thinks delaying Brexit at this stage is not likely. The current date helps May put pressure on wavering MPs scared of crashing out. A delay is more likely if May and the EU can reach a deal but have run out of time to implement it. Anyway let's see what happens tomorrow.
One more point |
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| silvertop Portishead 20 Jan 19 7.40pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
With respect, I never mentioned about "Personal interest". I mentioned "Personal reasons" with respect to the fact that many are ardent remainers and for this reason wish to thwart Brexit and go against the will of the majority who voted to leave.And of course there are Conservatives who come into this category. Labour are playing political games and would have voted down ANY deal that Theresa May had brought to Parliament.Labour have NO alternative plan and cannot even say if at a General Election they would be the party of Brexit or not.All we hear is "Consider all options" etc etc and all those mealy-mouthed phrases. My views on this are patently clear.I tend to not even view any of the threads on this forum as I already have a hectic political life outside of HOL so perhaps it is time that I bow out for a while ! Edited by Willo (20 Jan 2019 1.03pm) Right now I'm no labour supporter but is your position that tories voted down the deal based on conscience and the desire to serve the will of their constituents. But labour voted NO for wholly party political reasons?
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| steve1984 20 Jan 19 8.48pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Looks like Farage might make a return Which side of the Berlin wall did he find his ex?
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Jan 19 9.50pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You said, and I quote, 'I think this idea that the EU wants to destroy the nation state is garbage.' Well I give you two accurate quotes that talk precisely about the transfer of sovereignty from a nation state to a collective and here you are disingenuously claiming that there is some difference due to context....piffle....What she went on to say made no difference to her statement of wanting more transfer of power. As for the leader of Germany, 'just talking for herself'.....Is that so?....So the German control of Europe is imaginary is it? Along with France and that stickleback Macron those two countries constituent the driving force of the project. The Euro is in affect the Mark and the whole project has benefited Germany far more than any other state. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jan 2019 6.06pm) I will repeat it. It WAS fake news. You said that the EU wanted these things but the EU said no such thing. The German Chancellor said it and she speaks for herself and not for the EU. Germany has a vote. So do we. The context is important because of what she also said about the need for the Parliaments of individual countries to take their own decisions. Like so many anti-EU Brexiteers you seek to misrepresent not only the intentions of the EU but their capacity to enforce change, when they have no such ability. Germany and France being the current driving force makes not one iota of difference to that. The UK is, and will remain, a sovereign state with total control over what she does, or does not, agree to.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 20 Jan 19 10.01pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I will repeat it. It WAS fake news. You said that the EU wanted these things but the EU said no such thing. The German Chancellor said it and she speaks for herself and not for the EU. Germany has a vote. So do we. The context is important because of what she also said about the need for the Parliaments of individual countries to take their own decisions. Like so many anti-EU Brexiteers you seek to misrepresent not only the intentions of the EU but their capacity to enforce change, when they have no such ability. Germany and France being the current driving force makes not one iota of difference to that. The UK is, and will remain, a sovereign state with total control over what she does, or does not, agree to. I'm very happy for those bothered enough to read these exchanges on this point to judge for themselves who is more accurate and who is obfuscating and dancing on pin heads.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| chris123 hove actually 20 Jan 19 10.07pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I will repeat it. It WAS fake news. You said that the EU wanted these things but the EU said no such thing. The German Chancellor said it and she speaks for herself and not for the EU. Germany has a vote. So do we. The context is important because of what she also said about the need for the Parliaments of individual countries to take their own decisions. Like so many anti-EU Brexiteers you seek to misrepresent not only the intentions of the EU but their capacity to enforce change, when they have no such ability. Germany and France being the current driving force makes not one iota of difference to that. The UK is, and will remain, a sovereign state with total control over what she does, or does not, agree to. There are plenty of fast growing non-EU countries we can negotiate trade deals with.
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| Pussay Patrol 20 Jan 19 10.28pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
There are plenty of fast growing non-EU countries we can negotiate trade deals with. How long will the trade deals take to negotiate and can you elaborate on how these deals be better than the ones we have being in the EU?
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Jan 19 10.32pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm very happy for those bothered enough to read these exchanges on this point to judge for themselves who is more accurate and who is obfuscating and dancing on pin heads. Or put another way, who is recirculating fake news or who is telling the truth? That's one of the problems with Brexiteers. They seek to reduce everything to sound bites, which might appeal to readers of the Sun or the Daily Wail but doesn't stand critical examination. Critical examination of a complex subject like whether to be a member of the EU demands time and knowledge. That's why we employ MPs. Those that just scream £350 million per week for the NHS from the side of a bus, or that democracy is threatened because people want their Parliament to do their job, or that "leave means leave" don't really have the best interests of their country at heart. If they did they would welcome the chance to demonstrate the validity of their position. But no, they are just worried that in the last 2 years enough people have woken up, smelled the coffee and concluded that an error was made in 2016.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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