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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 19 Jan 19 12.24pm |
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Originally posted by mezzer
I don't agree with you on everything Tux by a long way, but you're spot on with this. We are heading for something beyond nasty. The answer to the biggest debt crisis in history in 2008 is, apparently, to borrow more, because NO ONE wants to cut back. The rise of populism has been all about 2008. It's always for someone else to deal with because the electorate all over the world have said it's nothing to do with them. They vote for who tells them what they want to hear. There's no real solution unfortunately, other than war. The last time the world looked like this was just before WWII, and before that just before WWI. It's called multipolarity, when global power is shifting. With the US declining in relative terms, the resurgence of China as a global power, the reawakening of Russian nationalism, and (in my opinion) the unravelling of the European Union in the next 5 to 10 years), we're headed for something far more worrying than a traffic jam in Dover. Still, there's not much we can do about it which is why I'm having a tenner on us to get something today at Liverpool, then going on holiday for a couple of weeks, having booked another break for the Summer. Deal only with what you can control. Much there I agree with. However, I feel it is our duty to stop the EU unravelling and try to lead it to a sensible reappraisal of it's purpose and direction. We can only do that if we sit at the decision making table. Just being an associate in some way, bound by some of the rules but not able to influence them, would not work. We ARE part of Europe. We are NOT now a global power and our Empire is but a faded memory who rightly are now looking at their own regional neighbours for trade and support. Turning towards the USA would be a foolish move as it's star begins to fade. Trump might be only a temporary phenomenon but I really don't think we can trust them anymore. We will struggle to find a path alone, but we are big enough to be relevant within the EU and play a significant role in shaping it's future. Us deciding to stay in would give the EU new impetus and us a bigger voice in making the needed changes.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Jan 19 12.36pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As I am not the least bit left wing you definitely misunderstand me! I have no time at all for the current Labour Party, or any kind of stifling socialism. I am an economic conservative but socially liberal. Capitalism with a high safety net! Anyone who regards people like me as "left wing" reveal more about themselves than they do about me. Only the hard right could come to such a conclusion. Maybe because I don’t dwell on your posts perhaps. I am concerned about how we’re leaving people behind in this country. That isn’t hard right, it’s logical.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Jan 19 12.39pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Much there I agree with. However, I feel it is our duty to stop the EU unravelling and try to lead it to a sensible reappraisal of it's purpose and direction. We can only do that if we sit at the decision making table. Just being an associate in some way, bound by some of the rules but not able to influence them, would not work. We ARE part of Europe. We are NOT now a global power and our Empire is but a faded memory who rightly are now looking at their own regional neighbours for trade and support. Turning towards the USA would be a foolish move as it's star begins to fade. Trump might be only a temporary phenomenon but I really don't think we can trust them anymore. We will struggle to find a path alone, but we are big enough to be relevant within the EU and play a significant role in shaping it's future. Us deciding to stay in would give the EU new impetus and us a bigger voice in making the needed changes. Ah, the same ‘The EU can be reformed’ delusion. I wish it could be.
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| Stirlingsays 19 Jan 19 1.35pm |
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The UK in the EU can make zero difference to whether we have a next world war or not. Indeed the expansion of the EU into Eastern Europe can be said to have significantly worsened relations with Russia and turned Putin against Europe when he was initially reasonably open. Indeed, trying to establish itself as a competitor to the US is pure insanity. The EU isn't Europe it is a political institution run by elites and they don't represent me even in the slightest. I'd go further than that and say that as a white male from a working class background I'd say that they have actually been negative in many respects to my future and for those coming up.....compared to how previous versions fared. I'm a European by genetics and so are well over half of the US and originally all of it. I'm connected to them just as much as I am connected to some German or French guy......Indeed much more so as we founded the US.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 19 Jan 19 1.36pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Much there I agree with. However, I feel it is our duty to stop the EU unravelling and try to lead it to a sensible reappraisal of it's purpose and direction. We can only do that if we sit at the decision making table. Just being an associate in some way, bound by some of the rules but not able to influence them, would not work. You are living in a dream land if you think that. Remember what Cameron tried to do? Look how much they listen to the UK now. Their way to stop it unravelling would be to ask us for MORE UK money and impose even more authoritarian laws and rules like they are doing with Hungary and Italy. Quote
We ARE part of Europe. We are NOT now a global power and our Empire is but a faded memory who rightly are now looking at their own regional neighbours for trade and support. Can you explain the link with the British Empire? Sounds like a very leftist soundbite! And funny how European neighbours Iceland, Norway and Switzerland survive fine outside of the EU. Quote
Turning towards the USA would be a foolish move as it's star begins to fade. Trump might be only a temporary phenomenon but I really don't think we can trust them anymore. We will struggle to find a path alone, but we are big enough to be relevant within the EU and play a significant role in shaping it's future. Us deciding to stay in would give the EU new impetus and us a bigger voice in making the needed changes. A foolish move? The biggest economy in the world (which has said it wants to trade with the UK) and will remain so at LEAST during our generation and our biggest global ally. That sort of anti-US rhetoric is straight out of the leftist playbook. Edited by Penge Eagle (19 Jan 2019 1.37pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Jan 19 1.41pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Ah, the same ‘The EU can be reformed’ delusion. I wish it could be. 3 years ago it looked an almost impossible task but a lot has happened since, not least the threat of Brexit, the rise of Trump, unrest in France and recession in Germany. It clearly won't be easy but it's more realistic today and us rolling back Brexit might be the tipping point that's needed.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Jan 19 1.43pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Maybe because I don’t dwell on your posts perhaps. I am concerned about how we’re leaving people behind in this country. That isn’t hard right, it’s logical. Everyone with a heart should be concerned about leaving people behind. Brexit though won't solve that and is likely to make it harder to do so.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 19 Jan 19 2.03pm |
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Brexit would mean politicians cannot blame the EU for their bad policies, especially the green ones which are crippling UK manufacturing. The EU Renewables Directive is yet another EU directive that affects our economy. It's why Brexit was about taking back control. 'What’s the real reason Greg Clark doesn’t like Brexit?' [Link]
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| Badger11 Beckenham 19 Jan 19 2.07pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
3 years ago it looked an almost impossible task but a lot has happened since, not least the threat of Brexit, the rise of Trump, unrest in France and recession in Germany. It clearly won't be easy but it's more realistic today and us rolling back Brexit might be the tipping point that's needed. Would this were true but I see no evidence of that in fact the contrary. In one sense the EU are glad to see the back of us they will miss the money but not us as we are the ones putting the brakes on closer integration. I posted a while ago a document from the EU on closer integration this is not fantasy and is due to start after we leave. (I can't be bothered to find it just google EU future plans). As for our influence well both Cameron and May have asked the EU for help and both were given nothing. The media highlighted the next German Chancellor and 70 others writing a letter asking us to stay. But unless they are prepared to move towards addressing our concerns it meant nothing. As another poster pointed out what exactly does remain mean?
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 19 Jan 19 2.15pm |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
au contraire The Aaron Banks investigation is still open, that's where the Russian money was filtered to Edited by Pussay Patrol (19 Jan 2019 1.37pm) Facebook has been accused of allowing anti-Brexit fake news to be ‘pumped out’
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Jan 19 2.15pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Everyone with a heart should be concerned about leaving people behind. Brexit though won't solve that and is likely to make it harder to do so. I am not just talking about the underclass but the socio-economic groups above. Their opportunities haven’t become available the way they would without Tony Blair inviting anyone in. It’s appalling nobody was given eveyan opinion on this let alone a vote seeing as anyone was branded a racist. My reasons go beyond that nobody has cared but now they will.
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Pussay Patrol  19 Jan 19 5.39pm |
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Some typical Brexiteer opinions above which in the main centre around cynicism and scepticism. Very rarely do you see statements of positivity, hope and future vision for our Country. Something built on negativity will fail before it's even started. Then the message often moves onto race and wars, the lost irony being the 2 world wars started from such cynicism and dislike of other cultures and the rise of the far right. Views which are backward and insular
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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