If I remember correctly the terms were that the UK couldn't stay in the single market and not have freedom of movement.

That for me is a red line. Indeed, the UK government knew that immigration was the central plank of the anti EU concerns.

The fact that the Tory party have utterly betrayed all those leave voters, for whom this was an issue...which it was most of them, is a point that they will personally pay a political price for.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Oct 2022 2.46pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

We are not going back because the EU still believes it can bully us back in.

Recently I was pleasantly surprised when a prominent Remainer actually made that point and for once criticised the EU. His point, if you want to get us back start wooing us not threatening us.

I don't think I would change my mind but it would be quite hard argument for Brexiteers if the EU started offering real compromises to get us back in.

However it is a moot point because they haven't and don't appear to be ready to do so any time soon.

One more point

We'll see about that. The mood in the country has already changed and is unlikely to reverse again. When the "result" of the referendum was already so close this matters. We now have a more pragmatic government and any changes of government are likely to result in further pragmatism, rather than hard-nosed ideology.

As another said, we move on. We do, and so does the EU and the rest of the world. This is no longer 2016. All of us face monumental challenges which hopefully will mean that realism about finding ways to secure the benefits of us being an EU member, without having to sign up to the most contentious elements, for some anyway, will be found.

I don't think we will fully re-join soon. I have thought for a while that some form of associate membership would provide a landing place for a half-way house in which we could rest for a while, get on with the big jobs and leave resolving full membership to future generations and their governments.

So a renegotiation of the "deal" is what I see down the line. Done quietly, without too much political hubris, opposition or referendums. A modified version of the "Norway" arrangement seemed to be on the table at one point. Perhaps it will be dusted off!

Things have already changed. This issue is now being openly discussed, in many places, including here. Which is much earlier than I thought it would be. That there is a sense of nervousness in the minds of those whose objections to the EU are rooted in emotion rather than hard reality, does give me some hope that the tide has not just turned, but is now flowing strongly in the direction I want to see.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Just when I think the pile of tosh that you serve up every day must have reached its peak, this arrives!

I suppose it keeps the prejudices alive.

Sunak, so far as I know, campaigned to leave the EU, and has not suggested, yet, he has changed his mind. If the government do soften their position, which seems to be the mood music now beginning to be heard, it will just demonstrate that sensible, mature and pragmatic politics have returned to centre stage. Hunt being appointed Chancellor was the first sign of that. It's long overdue, and very welcome.

The idea that the cabinet are "WEF globalists" caused a LOL moment. This obsession with the WEF conspiracy theory that they are in control of government policy all around the world is both funny, and sad, at the same time.

I think the damage that Johnson and Truss have done to the Tories prospects at the next GE will probably be too much to save them. However, there is a chance now. The pain in the next 2 years will be great but so long as it is spoken about fairly and honestly, it may also bring respect. With Labour offering nothing better, and their front bench looking so uninspiring, the last thing we need is for a Labour government in these times.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Unemployment is at 3.5%. The lowest since 1974. Brexit doesn't seem to be affecting the job market.