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Midlands Eagle 27 Feb 20 9.46am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It ought to be obvious. A better question is why should they? What does it achieve? Positive or negative results? Your responses get more and more ludicrous. What does calling a spade a spade achieve -truth that is what.
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Midlands Eagle

27 Feb 20 9.46am

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It ought to be obvious.

A better question is why should they? What does it achieve? Positive or negative results?

Your responses get more and more ludicrous. What does calling a spade a spade achieve -truth that is what.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 3.31pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Your responses get more and more ludicrous. What does calling a spade a spade achieve -truth that is what. Because sometimes it's wise to call a spade a shovel. Even if it is still a spade. You need to look beyond the simple and see what consequences flow from every action. Ever heard of choosing your words carefully? For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 3.31pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Your responses get more and more ludicrous. What does calling a spade a spade achieve -truth that is what.

Because sometimes it's wise to call a spade a shovel. Even if it is still a spade.

You need to look beyond the simple and see what consequences flow from every action.

Ever heard of choosing your words carefully?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 3.49pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle So by that token if a section of Palace and Brighton fans started fighting they shouldn't be called "Palace and Brighton fans" as not every Palace or Brighton fan in the UK was involved Your analogy has only a superficial relevance. No-one accuses any football fan of getting their inspiration from a holy book and tries to blame a culture for criminality as they do with the grooming gangs. It's easy to dissociate yourself from the mindless hooliganism carried out by tanked up lager louts in football shirts. I avoid them whatever shirt they happen to wear. Banter is understood as banter and so long as it is kept at a sensible level can be good fun. No-one gets offended or encouraged to join the hooligans as a result. Not so with the grooming gangs. You might think that you aren't lumping every Muslim into the same category but that's not how it comes over to me, or to others I have spoken to. That being so I would be fairly confident that many good people, who just happen to have been born Muslim, feel quietly upset at the terminology. It's all a question of degree. It would be taking PC to the nth degree not to describe fans by their team. It is not though just PC not to describe the grooming gangs as "Muslim" when to do so has the potential to exacerbate the situation without any identifiable benefits. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 3.49pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

So by that token if a section of Palace and Brighton fans started fighting they shouldn't be called "Palace and Brighton fans" as not every Palace or Brighton fan in the UK was involved

Your analogy has only a superficial relevance.

No-one accuses any football fan of getting their inspiration from a holy book and tries to blame a culture for criminality as they do with the grooming gangs.

It's easy to dissociate yourself from the mindless hooliganism carried out by tanked up lager louts in football shirts. I avoid them whatever shirt they happen to wear. Banter is understood as banter and so long as it is kept at a sensible level can be good fun. No-one gets offended or encouraged to join the hooligans as a result.

Not so with the grooming gangs. You might think that you aren't lumping every Muslim into the same category but that's not how it comes over to me, or to others I have spoken to. That being so I would be fairly confident that many good people, who just happen to have been born Muslim, feel quietly upset at the terminology.

It's all a question of degree. It would be taking PC to the nth degree not to describe fans by their team. It is not though just PC not to describe the grooming gangs as "Muslim" when to do so has the potential to exacerbate the situation without any identifiable benefits.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Feb 20 3.49pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Because sometimes it's wise to call a spade a shovel. Even if it is still a spade. You need to look beyond the simple and see what consequences flow from every action. Ever heard of choosing your words carefully? I think that is known as being mealy mouthed. Funny how you only call as a spade a shovel when it suits your agenda. I'm sure there is a rock somewhere that has a Wisbech Eagle shaped crevice under it.
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Hrolf The Ganger

27 Feb 20 3.49pm

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Because sometimes it's wise to call a spade a shovel. Even if it is still a spade.

You need to look beyond the simple and see what consequences flow from every action.

Ever heard of choosing your words carefully?

I think that is known as being mealy mouthed.

Funny how you only call as a spade a shovel when it suits your agenda.

I'm sure there is a rock somewhere that has a Wisbech Eagle shaped crevice under it.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 3.53pm
Originally posted by cryrst Most people understand you say. Surely that being the case why shouldn't they be called islamic? Because they aren't JUST islamic. They are criminals who happen to have emerged from an islamic background. We need to be more thoughtful and careful with our language. When fighting a battle we need to use every weapon at our disposal and language is one. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 3.53pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Most people understand you say.
Surely that being the case why shouldn't they be called islamic?

Because they aren't JUST islamic. They are criminals who happen to have emerged from an islamic background.

We need to be more thoughtful and careful with our language. When fighting a battle we need to use every weapon at our disposal and language is one.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 3.57pm
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Out of interest how would you define a Catholic priest peodophile in your PC language? Preferably just as a priest whilst being investigated. If tried and convicted his name and role will be published and people can then draw their own conclusions. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 3.57pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Out of interest how would you define a Catholic priest peodophile in your PC language?

Preferably just as a priest whilst being investigated. If tried and convicted his name and role will be published and people can then draw their own conclusions.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 27 Feb 20 4.04pm
Once again, WE is a utter hyprocrite. He has shown zero concern for his commentary upon groups that he regards as a negative. Yet he is here urging for 'protecting' groups he views positively.....Even to the extent where people are urged to be 'positive' rather than honest. This is the type of person who gave us this mess. We will call a spade a spade and he can like it or lump it. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Feb 2020 4.05pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Feb 20 4.04pm

Once again, WE is a utter hyprocrite.

He has shown zero concern for his commentary upon groups that he regards as a negative.

Yet he is here urging for 'protecting' groups he views positively.....Even to the extent where people are urged to be 'positive' rather than honest.

This is the type of person who gave us this mess.

We will call a spade a spade and he can like it or lump it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Feb 2020 4.05pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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cryrst The garden of England 27 Feb 20 4.20pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Your analogy has only a superficial relevance. No-one accuses any football fan of getting their inspiration from a holy book and tries to blame a culture for criminality as they do with the grooming gangs. It's easy to dissociate yourself from the mindless hooliganism carried out by tanked up lager louts in football shirts. I avoid them whatever shirt they happen to wear. Banter is understood as banter and so long as it is kept at a sensible level can be good fun. No-one gets offended or encouraged to join the hooligans as a result. Not so with the grooming gangs. You might think that you aren't lumping every Muslim into the same category but that's not how it comes over to me, or to others I have spoken to. That being so I would be fairly confident that many good people, who just happen to have been born Muslim, feel quietly upset at the terminology. It's all a question of degree. It would be taking PC to the nth degree not to describe fans by their team. It is not though just PC not to describe the grooming gangs as "Muslim" when to do so has the potential to exacerbate the situation without any identifiable benefits. Do any of these 'good ' people you speak to ever think differently to you. Are they then bad people. What about jane. And why have muslims not actually acted against these muslims who do the grooming. In such a way to actually try to stop it or report it so gaining a modicum of respect that you clearly think no one gives them. That would more than likely be, brothers,sisters,mum,dad,uncle,aunt,cousin,mates etc etc. Do you seriously believe that no one knows or knew. I dont think ignorance is an excuse. If you can defend this or try to say it isnt the case then your naivity is somewhat of a young child tbh.
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cryrst

The garden of England 27 Feb 20 4.20pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Your analogy has only a superficial relevance.

No-one accuses any football fan of getting their inspiration from a holy book and tries to blame a culture for criminality as they do with the grooming gangs.

Do any of these 'good ' people you speak to ever think differently to you. Are they then bad people.
What about jane.
And why have muslims not actually acted against these muslims who do the grooming.
In such a way to actually try to stop it or report it so gaining a modicum of respect that you clearly think no one gives them.
That would more than likely be, brothers,sisters,mum,dad,uncle,aunt,cousin,mates etc etc.
Do you seriously believe that no one knows or knew.
I dont think ignorance is an excuse.
If you can defend this or try to say it isnt the case then your naivity is somewhat of a young child tbh.

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cpfc_chap koh samui 27 Feb 20 4.32pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Because sometimes it's wise to call a spade a shovel. Even if it is still a spade. You need to look beyond the simple and see what consequences flow from every action. Ever heard of choosing your words carefully? You've obviously never worked on the tools as a spade is different to a shovel!
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cpfc_chap

koh samui 27 Feb 20 4.32pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Because sometimes it's wise to call a spade a shovel. Even if it is still a spade.

You need to look beyond the simple and see what consequences flow from every action.

Ever heard of choosing your words carefully?

You've obviously never worked on the tools as a spade is different to a shovel!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 6.48pm
Originally posted by cpfc_chap You've obviously never worked on the tools as a spade is different to a shovel! I know, that's why I said so. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 6.48pm

Originally posted by cpfc_chap

You've obviously never worked on the tools as a spade is different to a shovel!

I know, that's why I said so.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 7.00pm
Originally posted by cryrst Do any of these 'good ' people you speak to ever think differently to you. Are they then bad people. What about jane. Never discussed it with her. She is a fair minded person though so I expect she would get the point OK. And why have muslims not actually acted against these muslims who do the grooming. How do you know they haven't? Do you know what co-operation has been given to the Police or what happens behind closed doors? In such a way to actually try to stop it or report it so gaining a modicum of respect that you clearly think no one gives them. That would more than likely be, brothers,sisters,mum,dad,uncle,aunt,cousin,mates etc etc. Do you seriously believe that no one knows or knew. I dont think ignorance is an excuse. I think you are right and that some may well have been more aware than others. There is never an excuse for not reporting criminality but there can be reasons why people are reticent. A lack of trust in the Police being one. A desire to handle things within their own communities being another. But the most likely seems fear of retribution. If you can defend this or try to say it isnt the case then your naivity is somewhat of a young child tbh. For the umptheenth time I am NOT defending the criminality of the grooming gangs. ALL I am doing is questioning why some choose to describe them as "Islamic". For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 7.00pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Do any of these 'good ' people you speak to ever think differently to you. Are they then bad people.
What about jane.

Never discussed it with her. She is a fair minded person though so I expect she would get the point OK.

And why have muslims not actually acted against these muslims who do the grooming.

How do you know they haven't? Do you know what co-operation has been given to the Police or what happens behind closed doors?

In such a way to actually try to stop it or report it so gaining a modicum of respect that you clearly think no one gives them.
That would more than likely be, brothers,sisters,mum,dad,uncle,aunt,cousin,mates etc etc.
Do you seriously believe that no one knows or knew.
I dont think ignorance is an excuse.

I think you are right and that some may well have been more aware than others. There is never an excuse for not reporting criminality but there can be reasons why people are reticent. A lack of trust in the Police being one. A desire to handle things within their own communities being another. But the most likely seems fear of retribution.

If you can defend this or try to say it isnt the case then your naivity is somewhat of a young child tbh.

For the umptheenth time I am NOT defending the criminality of the grooming gangs. ALL I am doing is questioning why some choose to describe them as "Islamic".

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 7.25pm
SS accuses me of having my attitude "laid bare" via this quote:- "It's not about whether it's positive or negative. It's about what is true." So let's examine a couple of things. Is describing "grooming gangs" as "grooming gangs" a lie? Is describing "grooming gangs" as "Islamic grooming gangs" the truth? Now the first cannot be untrue. They are grooming gangs. The second is. Why is that? There are several reasons. The first being that no-one from the faith of Islam sent these people out to commit crime in their name. Islam won't be on any crime sheet. The second is that there are several versions of the Islamic faith. To use the blanket term "Islamic" is no more accurate than describing the IRA as "Christian terrorists". The third is that we have no actual proof that all the gang members are current, practising members of any faith. Some may be lapsed. Just because someone is called Mohammed is no reason to assume anything anymore than if someone is named Jesus they will be a Christian. Much more likely for sure but that's not good enough. More pertinently though the pictures I have seen of the gangs suggest they aren't all likely to be from one of the Islamic faiths. Some look as though they could be Sikhs. So if you want this only to be about the truth, because the truth needs to be faced, then face the truth. They aren't "Islamic" grooming gangs. They are grooming gangs. The truth does indeed matter and there it has been really laid bare. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Feb 20 7.25pm

SS accuses me of having my attitude "laid bare" via this quote:-

"It's not about whether it's positive or negative.

It's about what is true."

So let's examine a couple of things.

Is describing "grooming gangs" as "grooming gangs" a lie?

Is describing "grooming gangs" as "Islamic grooming gangs" the truth?

Now the first cannot be untrue. They are grooming gangs.

The second is. Why is that? There are several reasons.

The first being that no-one from the faith of Islam sent these people out to commit crime in their name. Islam won't be on any crime sheet.

The second is that there are several versions of the Islamic faith. To use the blanket term "Islamic" is no more accurate than describing the IRA as "Christian terrorists".

The third is that we have no actual proof that all the gang members are current, practising members of any faith. Some may be lapsed. Just because someone is called Mohammed is no reason to assume anything anymore than if someone is named Jesus they will be a Christian. Much more likely for sure but that's not good enough. More pertinently though the pictures I have seen of the gangs suggest they aren't all likely to be from one of the Islamic faiths. Some look as though they could be Sikhs.

So if you want this only to be about the truth, because the truth needs to be faced, then face the truth. They aren't "Islamic" grooming gangs. They are grooming gangs. The truth does indeed matter and there it has been really laid bare.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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