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General Election 2017

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serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 10 May 17 11.59am Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

It is not as simple as just taking that 40 billion and redistributing it amongst the poor like some modern day Robin Hood though is it.

You can argue the pros and cons to globalisation but the reality is much / most of that money was earned outside of this country.

Taxation is a worldwide problem, governments have struggled to keep up with developments of the last 15 years. Until they collectively get a grip, the situation won't change whoever is in charge. People will simply up sticks.

Then you have someone like Adele, worth over £110 million, she makes music which creates jobs but she is not a mass employer (and barely a UK resident)

I'm not saying that it is. What i'm arguing is, that we have a government who could not manage things any more incompetently and disastorously than they are.

I'll rehash James O'Brien on LBC. How can a government cut disability welfare because there's no money, but also cut corporation tax? How can you possibly justify that? The thing that concerns me, is that even as the IFS, traditionally a conservative economic analyser, come out and say that the tax system is ludicrously weighed in favour of the rich, when Corbyn suggests even a moderate tax rise for those over 100k, he is shouted down as a communist. And who are leading the shouting? Of course, those who own the media, who all sit happily in that top 1000!

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 10 May 17 12.00pm

Originally posted by Willo

I am not or never been a member of any 'Hunt' but I will say the case for repealing the 'Hunting Act' remains very strong.
.

I don't think there really is. Hunting with Hounds is an incredibly inefficient means of controlling fox populations, and only affects the countryside where foxes aren't really a problem.

Whilst I think that banning fox hunting was a meaningless bone tossed by New Labour to its core left wing membership, repealing the ban is simply the same gesture by the Conservative.

If foxes are a problem, then adequate and efficient population control is required. Its important to remember that fox hunting is one of the reasons why urban foxes have flourished (along with the human waste production).

Its incredibly short sited in a era where peoples bins are being emptied once a week, to think that fox hunts will do anything to curb fox populations (as that refuse build up, is one of the reasons urban foxes are flourishing).

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 10 May 17 12.11pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

It is not as simple as just taking that 40 billion and redistributing it amongst the poor like some modern day Robin Hood though is it.

You can argue the pros and cons to globalisation but the reality is much / most of that money was earned outside of this country.

Taxation is a worldwide problem, governments have struggled to keep up with developments of the last 15 years. Until they collectively get a grip, the situation won't change whoever is in charge. People will simply up sticks.

Then you have someone like Adele, worth over £110 million, she makes music which creates jobs but she is not a mass employer (and barely a UK resident)

Of course Adele works in one of the most inefficient systems of business known to man, which tends towards a 10% successful return rate (its just that 10% generates huge revenues to cover the 90% of losses).

You do have to wonder though why people who have such vast incomes, are so worried about small tax hikes that they'll threaten to leave the UK (they won't - Tax rates in countries like the US are so favourable by comparison they'd have left long ago if that was their true intention.

Its like celebrities who threaten to leave the UK if x happens. They never do, because their income is so tied to income generated from UK investments.

Sure a big hike, might have an emigration affect, but something reasonable won't. Its also worth remembering that taxation revenue creates jobs as well - within the civil services - and far more efficiently than within the music industry.

Taxation needs to be reviewed, and we as a population need to stop thinking in terms of short term political goals, and instead in terms of what we will fund with revenue, our priorities and how much the country needs to effectively provide efficient services to everyone - and how to best generate that revenue.

Pragmatically, not ideologically. It always astonishes me that people can be so 'Nationalistic' but then object to taxation which is the life blood by which any nation operates.

Its like the US and its massive defence spending, but object hate of any kind of health care system. The first step to protecting your people, is to protect them from the likely threats and those are health (in truth, its all about US governments plowing huge amounts of money into friendly companies which if they were called subsidies would be criminal)

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 10 May 17 12.17pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

I'm not saying that it is. What i'm arguing is, that we have a government who could not manage things any more incompetently and disastorously than they are.

I'll rehash James O'Brien on LBC. How can a government cut disability welfare because there's no money, but also cut corporation tax? How can you possibly justify that? The thing that concerns me, is that even as the IFS, traditionally a conservative economic analyser, come out and say that the tax system is ludicrously weighed in favour of the rich, when Corbyn suggests even a moderate tax rise for those over 100k, he is shouted down as a communist. And who are leading the shouting? Of course, those who own the media, who all sit happily in that top 1000!

They'd argue that the corporate tax cuts create jobs - and they do, but they create jobs that do not pay reasonable wages, and by cutting welfare they believe they will push people into working in jobs they can't afford to work in.

The problem hasn't been jobs, its been how can a job that pays less than benefits (which are subsistence) be justified as an achievement.

The inequality isn't the issue really for the working class, its being poor, without any real hope of that changing. Of course people are angry when 50-75% of their income is going on rent. Family friend of mine, in his 70s, lost his father when he was 16, he paid the rent on his house with an apprenticeship (in Henley). Now that rent would be 1500 a month, try paying that on minimum wage.

Work must provide a means of existence, not subsistence.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 10 May 17 12.35pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

I am reminded many years ago when I used to peruse the 'BBS' that Trolley was very much pro-hunting and was a member of a 'Hunt'.He used to get into many a fiesty exchange by those opposed to it and there used to be more eruptions than Vesuvius.

I am not or never been a member of any 'Hunt' but I will say the case for repealing the 'Hunting Act' remains very strong.

That's all I will say on this matter else this 'Thread' will end up like the 'Fox Hunting' threads on the BBS and the focus will turn to me rather than the subject matter of this thread.So no more to say on this even if those goad me to try and lure me into a response.It WON'T be forthcoming.

I'm interested to know in what way the case for repeal "remains very strong".

As Ricky Gervais points out, imagine a group of blokes setting a pack dogs on a terrified wild animal for a laugh. Now imagine they're posh and on horseback.

May should be concentrating on reversing planned cuts to Education or the funding crisis in the NHS rather than sorting things out so her toff mates can torture wild animals for fun.

 

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CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 10 May 17 12.39pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

Willo, if you think May is attempting to appeal to a wider public and Corbyn only to his followers, why do you think it is that May's audiences on the campaign trail are handpicked while local people kept out by police, but Corbyn is doing public talks on the streets and in the centre of towns?


Because Trollo is a myopic wind up merchant who reads the Daily Mail.

 

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CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 10 May 17 12.40pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

It is not as simple as just taking that 40 billion and redistributing it amongst the poor like some modern day Robin Hood though is it.

You can argue the pros and cons to globalisation but the reality is much / most of that money was earned outside of this country.

Taxation is a worldwide problem, governments have struggled to keep up with developments of the last 15 years. Until they collectively get a grip, the situation won't change whoever is in charge. People will simply up sticks.

Then you have someone like Adele, worth over £110 million, she makes music which creates jobs but she is not a mass employer (and barely a UK resident)

Where is your evidence for this? What do you even mean by this?

 

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CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 10 May 17 12.44pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Possibly a security issue relating to a 'Prime Minister'.Let's wait and see when the Conservative election campaign is in 'Full Swing' shall we when a raft of ministers will be out in force.
In general the Conservatives are appealing to the electorate at large, Corbyn only to his fellow comrades.

Regards Corbyn's "Public talks", how can one be sure that these people are NOT hand-picked either ? In any event I was referring to the general message rather than what the leaders have been doing in public thus far.

When I mentioned 'Agenda', Corbyn is only appealing to his core membership and not to the wider public with the suggestion that far from trying to win an election he just wants to ensure he will remain leader for some time.

Must go out now to do Tory election things !!!!


Edited by Willo (10 May 2017 11.53am)

I imagine if most people looked dispassionately at the policies on offer and didn't know whose they were Labour's would be by far the most popular. Just my opinion.

Evidence though clearly does not support an assertion that the Tories' policies are fair and beneficial to the wider public. Austerity is a tool with which to beat the less well off and one they have been using (after the rest of the world abandoned it a long time ago) for 7 years. Trump is trying to bring it back in some respects and it's already unravelling and proving a disaster.

 

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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 10 May 17 1.17pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Where is your evidence for this? What do you even mean by this?

I mean much of the wealth that these people possess was earned outside of the UK. Therefore just blaming the UK tax system for inequality kinda misses the point. The issue regarding how personal wealth and business profits are taxed is something that no single government can address. Perfectly illustrated by those who are concerned that we may become a tax haven post Brexit

Evidence? Here you go

[Link]


 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 10 May 17 1.39pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I imagine if most people looked dispassionately at the policies on offer and didn't know whose they were Labour's would be by far the most popular. Just my opinion.

Evidence though clearly does not support an assertion that the Tories' policies are fair and beneficial to the wider public. Austerity is a tool with which to beat the less well off and one they have been using (after the rest of the world abandoned it a long time ago) for 7 years. Trump is trying to bring it back in some respects and it's already unravelling and proving a disaster.

One can have all the so called "Popular" policies about : Extra this, more money for that, no fees for that, less of this, nationalise that blah,blah, blah. At the end of the day lavish spending sprees have to be paid for - unless you have a strong economy all these promises simply cannot be met.Labour are NOT trusted on the economy at all and their policies would bankrupt this country.The electorate are NOT stupid. They have a choice between a strong and stable Government under May or a coalition of chaos under Corbyn and his comrades.

This is my final post on this thread as it will surely evolve into one where I feel duty-bound to respond to the Anti-Tory rhetoric and the debate will only evolve into yet another tedious WILLO thread full of acrimony.

No more from me !

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 10 May 17 1.44pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

One can have all the so called "Popular" policies about : Extra this, more money for that, no fees for that, less of this, nationalise that blah,blah, blah. At the end of the day lavish spending sprees have to be paid for - unless you have a strong economy all these promises simply cannot be met.Labour are NOT trusted on the economy at all and their policies would bankrupt this country.The electorate are NOT stupid. They have a choice between a strong and stable Government under May or a coalition of chaos under Corbyn and his comrades.

This is my final post on this thread as it will surely evolve into one where I feel duty-bound to respond to the Anti-Tory rhetoric and the debate will only evolve into yet another tedious WILLO thread full of acrimony.

No more from me !

Key word being 'all.'

Labour implementing all the policies they want to and probably would is what everyone fears.

 


COYP

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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 10 May 17 1.44pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

This is my final post on this thread as it will surely evolve into one where I feel duty-bound to respond to the Anti-Tory rhetoric and the debate will only evolve into yet another tedious WILLO thread full of acrimony.

No more from me !

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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