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Jeremy Corbyn

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johnfirewall Flag 18 Jan 16 11.56am Send a Private Message to johnfirewall Add johnfirewall as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 18 Jan 2016 11.38am

All of this nonsense in the currant buns front page.
Most of the assertions were actually what Andrew Marr said, not Corbyn. He neither agreed nor disagreed with what Marr was saying. A set up hatchet job if ever I saw one.
His main point was finding a way to keep jobs in places like Barrow.

I've just read the Guardian's round-up of all the other papers, none of which seem to think it was a very good idea, to say the least, nor do they seem to disgree that he said “There don’t have to be nuclear warheads on them".

In a rare absense of a Guardian article soley centred around other outlets being wrong thus temprarily crediting the left with an ounce of sanity, you're saying he did't actually say it.


Edited by johnfirewall (18 Jan 2016 11.57am)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 18 Jan 16 12.26pm

Quote johnfirewall at 18 Jan 2016 11.56am

Quote nickgusset at 18 Jan 2016 11.38am

All of this nonsense in the currant buns front page.
Most of the assertions were actually what Andrew Marr said, not Corbyn. He neither agreed nor disagreed with what Marr was saying. A set up hatchet job if ever I saw one.
His main point was finding a way to keep jobs in places like Barrow.

I've just read the Guardian's round-up of all the other papers, none of which seem to think it was a very good idea, to say the least, nor do they seem to disgree that he said “There don’t have to be nuclear warheads on them".

In a rare absense of a Guardian article soley centred around other outlets being wrong thus temprarily crediting the left with an ounce of sanity, you're saying he did't actually say it.


Edited by johnfirewall (18 Jan 2016 11.57am)

They don't actually need to have nuclear warheads on them, as they can use the missile system to deliver an non-nuclear payload, or they could be used as traditional submarines, but ultimately that would be fairly pointless, given we already have traditional submarine in the navy, and our warships are capable of delivering longer range missile strikes.

Trident isn't the answer, but a non-nuclear trident is even more pointless that a aircraft carrier that has no aircraft.

Having a nuclear capacity, it makes no sense to just disarm without significant compromise from other nuclear nations, and non-nuclear nations. Realistically the genie isn't going back in the bottle either.

The only thing that will prevent nations seeking nuclear capability is allies with nuclear capability, or a more powerful alternative to Nuclear weapons.

Even France has nuclear capability. I think the only country to ever disarm has been South Africa, which didn't have thermonuclear capability (I think they were developing a neutron bomb in a shared project with Israels nuclear research).

Within 20 years, Iran and Saudi Arabia will probably test a nuclear weapon.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 18 Jan 16 12.37pm

Quote johnfirewall at 18 Jan 2016 11.56am

I've just read the Guardian's round-up of all the other papers, none of which seem to think it was a very good idea, to say the least, nor do they seem to disgree that he said “There don’t have to be nuclear warheads on them".

In a rare absense of a Guardian article soley centred around other outlets being wrong thus temprarily crediting the left with an ounce of sanity, you're saying he did't actually say it.


Forgive the long quote here, but it's a transcript of the Marr interview yesterday. Corbyn does not say that he believes we should have subs without missiles, although he does say that there should be a discussion about the issues. totally different to what the sun has put on the front page today. He did not say we should have subs without missiles so yes, I do say he didn't actually say it.


AM: Not a secret. You gave an interview to the Independent on
Sunday today in which you said a very interesting thing, you said
that actually Trident or not Trident wasn’t necessarily a binary
decision, an either/or decision. What did you mean by that?
JC: Well, we don’t know what proposal the government is going to
make when the issue comes up to parliament, whenever it comes
up. That’s not in my hands. There may well be a discussion on
considering it further, because the government is in arguments
about the cost of the whole programme. Many in the military are
very worried about the focus of so much expenditure on nuclear
weapons when they actually are looking at more conventional
issues and a more conventional role for the armed forces. And of
course issues of insecurity around the world.
AM: Well, you say it’s not binary. Is there an implication there that
Jeremy Corbyn might support a reduction in Britain’s nuclear
deterrent without going the whole hog to complete ending it
straight away?
JC: You shouldn’t read too much into one sentence of an
interview. What I’m saying is we don’t know what the proposal is
the government’s going to put. My views on nuclear weapons are
very, very well known and I want to see a nuclear-free world, I
want to see us playing a full role in the nuclear non-proliferation
treaty, I want to see a return to the ABM treaty, the ballistic missile treaty by Russia and the United States. I want to see a deescalation
in nuclear potentials around the world. And that surely
is something we can all sign up to.
AM: I sometimes wonder whether this whole Trident debate in the
Labour Party is a nonsense, because we know, and you’ve said,
that you would never press the button, and if you were a Labour
Party prime minister therefore there wouldn’t be a nuclear
deterrent, because it depends upon the Russians or the Iranians
or whoever thinking that you might use it, and indeed you won’t.
There’s no deterrent there anyway.
JC: The real issue is are we going to play our part in the nuclear
non-proliferation treaty? The British government in May missed a
huge opportunity there in many ways. I want to play a full part in
the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, which requires the five
declared nuclear weapons states not to further develop their
nuclear capability, and the – what is it? – 187 other countries that
have signed it not to develop nuclear weapons. It’s actually been,
by and large, a very successful treaty.
AM: But if we have these four huge submarines packed with
nuclear weapons circling the globe and a prime minister who has
said, ‘I will never, ever use them,’ then it’s not really a deterrent
anyway, it’s a nonsense.
JC: They don’t actually have nuclear warheads on them.
AM: Sure. So we can have Trident submarines without nuclear
warheads, could we?
JC: If we use a nuclear weapon, anybody uses a nuclear weapon,
it is catastrophic for the whole globe. Everybody knows it’s
catastrophic. I don’t believe David Cameron would use it either.
AM: So you think the deterrent doesn’t really exist as a deterrent
any more?
JC: I think that the nuclear weapons system is something of the
Cold War generation. I don’t believe that in the insecurities of
today nuclear weapons are a solution to that. Look at the
problems in the Middle East, elsewhere, look at the disaster of 9/11 in New York in 2001. Were nuclear weapons any help in any
of those? No, they were not. We have achieved a fantastic step
forward with Iran, that surely is the way forward. Diplomacy
comes first.
AM: I have one final question on this then I’ll move on, which is
you suggested just now one answer might be to keep the Trident
submarines but without nuclear weapons on board, is that what
you’re saying?

JC: There are options there. The paper that Emily Thornberry has
put forward is a very interesting one, deserves a very good study
of it and read of it, and I hope there will be a serious, mature
response to what is a very serious and hopefully mature debate
about the nature of security and insecurity, the nature of the way
in which we protect ourselves against insecurity and we bring
about a more secure world as a result.

Apologies for the formatting, but copied from pdf.
[Link]

EDIT. The bold part - Marr said that Corbyn said one answer might be... Corbyn didn't, Marr was the one who suggested it. Like I said earlier, a hatchet job.

Edited by nickgusset (18 Jan 2016 12.47pm)

 

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johnfirewall Flag 18 Jan 16 1.49pm Send a Private Message to johnfirewall Add johnfirewall as a friend

He suggested he suggested it, which he didn't dispute, as he said "They don’t actually have nuclear warheads on them"

 

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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 18 Jan 16 1.54pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

No wonder he wants to give the Falklands back his other half is Argentinian !!

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jan 16 2.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Corbyn must realise that this situation is ridiculous.

He must know that the vast majority in England will never vote for giving up nuclear weapons.....The lefties in Scotland and half in Wales perhaps but it is simply never going to happen in England.

Corbyn has led his party to irrelevance and I may be Ukip but I still have respect for some old Labour values.....But this one was always bats*** crazy and Corbyn just looks like a fool.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 18 Jan 16 2.25pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 18 Jan 2016 2.19pm

Corbyn must realise that this situation is ridiculous.

He must know that the vast majority in England will never vote for giving up nuclear weapons.....The lefties in Scotland and half in Wales perhaps but it is simply never going to happen in England.

Corbyn has led his party to irrelevance and I may be Ukip but I still have respect for some old Labour values.....But this one was always bats*** crazy and Corbyn just looks like a fool.

Everytime he opens his mouth he distances himself from more and more of the electorate, we all know that the tories are piss taking bastads, but Corbyn and his bunch of crusty lesbians and hippys are unelectable.

So I ask what do voters do in this case, no one is going to vote UKIP, lets be honest here, they just aren't. So it's either hand GB over to which ever agressive economic power decides to take over first, or vote the robbing bastads that are the tories back in again.

What a crock of s***.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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Stuk Flag Top half 18 Jan 16 3.15pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

He's had possibly his most retarded weekend so far.

I don't even think he'll make it to the general election.

 


Optimistic as ever

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 18 Jan 16 3.22pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 18 Jan 2016 11.38am

All of this nonsense in the currant buns front page.
Most of the assertions were actually what Andrew Marr said, not Corbyn. He neither agreed nor disagreed with what Marr was saying. A set up hatchet job if ever I saw one.
His main point was finding a way to keep jobs in places like Barrow.


It appears that Corbyn is trying to come up with a 'solution' that placates Unite and his own disarmament ideology. Nothing wrong with that in principle.

However, the solution, which he appeared to support on Marr, and has been collaborated in the papers which suggest the Labour spin masters have been supporting the idea, is a giant, expensive fudge, one which if Cameron had proposed, you would be critiscisimg to the hilt.

This is a classic clash of interests. A politician having to compromise principles because his paymasters disagree with his principles. I would actually have some respect for Corbyn if he said, no trident under any circumstances. However, he has opened up in my mind that that his principles are for sale. Something he appeared to be against from the start, with his 'new politics', and if I was a Labour or Corbyn supporter, I would be concerned at this development.

Edited by matt_himself (18 Jan 2016 3.23pm)

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 18 Jan 16 3.24pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote Stuk at 18 Jan 2016 3.15pm

He's had possibly his most retarded weekend so far.

I don't even think he'll make it to the general election.


Don't say that. There are at least a dozen 'safe' Labour seats Farage could win if Corbyn keeps this up until the next election.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 18 Jan 16 3.45pm

Quote matt_himself at 18 Jan 2016 3.22pm

Quote nickgusset at 18 Jan 2016 11.38am

All of this nonsense in the currant buns front page.
Most of the assertions were actually what Andrew Marr said, not Corbyn. He neither agreed nor disagreed with what Marr was saying. A set up hatchet job if ever I saw one.
His main point was finding a way to keep jobs in places like Barrow.


It appears that Corbyn is trying to come up with a 'solution' that placates Unite and his own disarmament ideology. Nothing wrong with that in principle.

However, the solution, which he appeared to support on Marr, and has been collaborated in the papers which suggest the Labour spin masters have been supporting the idea, is a giant, expensive fudge, one which if Cameron had proposed, you would be critiscisimg to the hilt.

This is a classic clash of interests. A politician having to compromise principles because his paymasters disagree with his principles. I would actually have some respect for Corbyn if he said, no trident under any circumstances. However, he has opened up in my mind that that his principles are for sale. Something he appeared to be against from the start, with his 'new politics', and if I was a Labour or Corbyn supporter, I would be concerned at this development.

Edited by matt_himself (18 Jan 2016 3.23pm)

FYI tis corroborated.

See even after I've left the classroom I can learn people things.

You will spin anti Corbyn, even if he saved your mother from a house fire.

 

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 18 Jan 16 3.53pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 18 Jan 2016 3.45pm

Quote matt_himself at 18 Jan 2016 3.22pm

Quote nickgusset at 18 Jan 2016 11.38am

All of this nonsense in the currant buns front page.
Most of the assertions were actually what Andrew Marr said, not Corbyn. He neither agreed nor disagreed with what Marr was saying. A set up hatchet job if ever I saw one.
His main point was finding a way to keep jobs in places like Barrow.


It appears that Corbyn is trying to come up with a 'solution' that placates Unite and his own disarmament ideology. Nothing wrong with that in principle.

However, the solution, which he appeared to support on Marr, and has been collaborated in the papers which suggest the Labour spin masters have been supporting the idea, is a giant, expensive fudge, one which if Cameron had proposed, you would be critiscisimg to the hilt.

This is a classic clash of interests. A politician having to compromise principles because his paymasters disagree with his principles. I would actually have some respect for Corbyn if he said, no trident under any circumstances. However, he has opened up in my mind that that his principles are for sale. Something he appeared to be against from the start, with his 'new politics', and if I was a Labour or Corbyn supporter, I would be concerned at this development.

Edited by matt_himself (18 Jan 2016 3.23pm)

FYI tis corroborated.

See even after I've left the classroom I can learn people things.

You will spin anti Corbyn, even if he saved your mother from a house fire.


Rabid right wingers opposing Corbyn's plan:

[Link]

Rather than attacking the man (remember when the argument is lost, slander is the tool of the loser, or something), you could try and rebuff what I said.

Edited by matt_himself (18 Jan 2016 3.53pm)

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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