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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Jan 19 4.50pm | |
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As those who have read my recent posts will know I am of the opinion that it is for Parliament to determine whether we remain a member of the EU, after admitting that holding a referendum was a mistake. That though looks unlikely to be the way forward as my opinion is clearly not shared by enough MPs. Observing the way things are progressing I think I can see an end game beginning to emerge and wonder if my analysis is shared by others. The current series of meetings with senior Parliamentarians looks unlikely to bridge the very wide gaps, especially with Corbyn refusing to participate. May cannot rule out a "no deal" Brexit, either legally or from her negotiating position, so we are going to have a continuing stalemate for the coming week or two. I therefore think that Parliament will vote to give itself control of the process and start to issue instructions to the Executive, as has been heavily suggested in the past week. Corbyn doesn't want this, but many in his party do. This I think will end up with us requesting a delay to the implementation of A50, which will be granted, and us holding a new referendum to determine the current mood of the country. I am not in favour of any referendums, and hope this will be the last we ever hold, but we need a route out of the impasse. It should be remebered that this wouldn't be a "second referendum", ie asking the same question a second time just to get a different answer. In fact it would be the third referendum on our membership. We voted to stay in, in 1975, with twice as many deciding to remain as wanted to leave. Compared to the tiny margin in 2016 this was overwelming. OK, this was the EC/EEC and not the EU but it is nonetheless instructive. Such a huge margin was not enough for the anti Europe lobby, who continued moaning and campaigning until Cameron buckled and tried to marginalise them for ever. So a new referendum to determine how people feel now that we have 2 years more experience of what coming out actually might entail would seem to be a logical move. In view of the fact that this would be the third in a series of referendums I see no justification for any complaints. If Parliament consulted the people twice before, why not again, when there is no consensus amongst themselves? Those convinced that leaving is still the wish of the people need have nothing to fear. The next big question is what the options might be. That will cause some blood to boil.
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Hrolf The Ganger 17 Jan 19 5.02pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As those who have read my recent posts will know I am of the opinion that it is for Parliament to determine whether we remain a member of the EU, after admitting that holding a referendum was a mistake. That though looks unlikely to be the way forward as my opinion is clearly not shared by enough MPs. Observing the way things are progressing I think I can see an end game beginning to emerge and wonder if my analysis is shared by others. The current series of meetings with senior Parliamentarians looks unlikely to bridge the very wide gaps, especially with Corbyn refusing to participate. May cannot rule out a "no deal" Brexit, either legally or from her negotiating position, so we are going to have a continuing stalemate for the coming week or two. I therefore think that Parliament will vote to give itself control of the process and start to issue instructions to the Executive, as has been heavily suggested in the past week. Corbyn doesn't want this, but many in his party do. This I think will end up with us requesting a delay to the implementation of A50, which will be granted, and us holding a new referendum to determine the current mood of the country. I am not in favour of any referendums, and hope this will be the last we ever hold, but we need a route out of the impasse. It should be remebered that this wouldn't be a "second referendum", ie asking the same question a second time just to get a different answer. In fact it would be the third referendum on our membership. We voted to stay in, in 1975, with twice as many deciding to remain as wanted to leave. Compared to the tiny margin in 2016 this was overwelming. OK, this was the EC/EEC and not the EU but it is nonetheless instructive. Such a huge margin was not enough for the anti Europe lobby, who continued moaning and campaigning until Cameron buckled and tried to marginalise them for ever. So a new referendum to determine how people feel now that we have 2 years more experience of what coming out actually might entail would seem to be a logical move. In view of the fact that this would be the third in a series of referendums I see no justification for any complaints. If Parliament consulted the people twice before, why not again, when there is no consensus amongst themselves? Those convinced that leaving is still the wish of the people need have nothing to fear. The next big question is what the options might be. That will cause some blood to boil. What a long winded way of saying that you want Parliament to renege on it's referendum promise just because you and your remain friends didn't like the result.
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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 17 Jan 19 5.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As those who have read my recent posts will know I am of the opinion that it is for Parliament to determine whether we remain a member of the EU, after admitting that holding a referendum was a mistake. That though looks unlikely to be the way forward as my opinion is clearly not shared by enough MPs. Observing the way things are progressing I think I can see an end game beginning to emerge and wonder if my analysis is shared by others. The current series of meetings with senior Parliamentarians looks unlikely to bridge the very wide gaps, especially with Corbyn refusing to participate. May cannot rule out a "no deal" Brexit, either legally or from her negotiating position, so we are going to have a continuing stalemate for the coming week or two. I therefore think that Parliament will vote to give itself control of the process and start to issue instructions to the Executive, as has been heavily suggested in the past week. Corbyn doesn't want this, but many in his party do. This I think will end up with us requesting a delay to the implementation of A50, which will be granted, and us holding a new referendum to determine the current mood of the country. I am not in favour of any referendums, and hope this will be the last we ever hold, but we need a route out of the impasse. It should be remebered that this wouldn't be a "second referendum", ie asking the same question a second time just to get a different answer. In fact it would be the third referendum on our membership. We voted to stay in, in 1975, with twice as many deciding to remain as wanted to leave. Compared to the tiny margin in 2016 this was overwelming. OK, this was the EC/EEC and not the EU but it is nonetheless instructive. Such a huge margin was not enough for the anti Europe lobby, who continued moaning and campaigning until Cameron buckled and tried to marginalise them for ever. So a new referendum to determine how people feel now that we have 2 years more experience of what coming out actually might entail would seem to be a logical move. In view of the fact that this would be the third in a series of referendums I see no justification for any complaints. If Parliament consulted the people twice before, why not again, when there is no consensus amongst themselves? Those convinced that leaving is still the wish of the people need have nothing to fear. The next big question is what the options might be. That will cause some blood to boil. Interesting post. Another referendum seems all but inevitable as things stand due to the stalemate and the end of the road for all other options, including no deal. Unless of course the EU buckle and decide to make whatever amendments to the rejected deal that will mean it passes in Parliament.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 17 Jan 19 5.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
What a long winded way of saying that you want Parliament to renege on it's referendum promise just because you and your remain friends didn't like the result. Long winded appears to be the norm with this fella.
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steeleye20 Croydon 17 Jan 19 6.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
Long winded appears to be the norm with this fella. It is because he looks at the details before proceeding, something no brexiteer can do......
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becky over the moon 17 Jan 19 6.18pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As those who have read my recent posts will know I am of the opinion that it is for Parliament to determine whether we remain a member of the EU, after admitting that holding a referendum was a mistake. That though looks unlikely to be the way forward as my opinion is clearly not shared by enough MPs. Observing the way things are progressing I think I can see an end game beginning to emerge and wonder if my analysis is shared by others. The current series of meetings with senior Parliamentarians looks unlikely to bridge the very wide gaps, especially with Corbyn refusing to participate. May cannot rule out a "no deal" Brexit, either legally or from her negotiating position, so we are going to have a continuing stalemate for the coming week or two. I therefore think that Parliament will vote to give itself control of the process and start to issue instructions to the Executive, as has been heavily suggested in the past week. Corbyn doesn't want this, but many in his party do. This I think will end up with us requesting a delay to the implementation of A50, which will be granted, and us holding a new referendum to determine the current mood of the country. I am not in favour of any referendums, and hope this will be the last we ever hold, but we need a route out of the impasse. It should be remebered that this wouldn't be a "second referendum", ie asking the same question a second time just to get a different answer. In fact it would be the third referendum on our membership. We voted to stay in, in 1975, with twice as many deciding to remain as wanted to leave. Compared to the tiny margin in 2016 this was overwelming. OK, this was the EC/EEC and not the EU but it is nonetheless instructive. Such a huge margin was not enough for the anti Europe lobby, who continued moaning and campaigning until Cameron buckled and tried to marginalise them for ever. So a new referendum to determine how people feel now that we have 2 years more experience of what coming out actually might entail would seem to be a logical move. In view of the fact that this would be the third in a series of referendums I see no justification for any complaints. If Parliament consulted the people twice before, why not again, when there is no consensus amongst themselves? Those convinced that leaving is still the wish of the people need have nothing to fear. The next big question is what the options might be. That will cause some blood to boil.
On the second point, we have had 2 more years of people telling us what leaving MIGHT entail, depending on their position on it, but no-one still has any FACTS on what it will entail. The second referendum was quite clear to me: LEAVE or STAY - so if we cannot manage an ordered exit with a deal, we take the disorderly one with no deal. Any other option is a betrayal of the will of the majority of the people at the point they were asked, and exactly what the EU has been trying to achieve all along.
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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 17 Jan 19 6.22pm | |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Interesting post. Another referendum seems all but inevitable as things stand due to the stalemate and the end of the road for all other options, including no deal. Unless of course the EU buckle and decide to make whatever amendments to the rejected deal that will mean it passes in Parliament. So what happens if LEAVE wins a second referendum? Will all the remoaners shut the f*** up then?
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Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 19 6.27pm | |
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LBC are reporting that the government gave the Lib Dems a document which says that it took 14 months to organise the 2016 referendum. A 2nd referendum would take many months. I hope this does not happen but if it does expect Brexit date to be delayed by at least 1 year.
One more point |
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Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 19 6.28pm | |
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Originally posted by becky
On the second point, we have had 2 more years of people telling us what leaving MIGHT entail, depending on their position on it, but no-one still has any FACTS on what it will entail. The second referendum was quite clear to me: LEAVE or STAY - so if we cannot manage an ordered exit with a deal, we take the disorderly one with no deal. Any other option is a betrayal of the will of the majority of the people at the point they were asked, and exactly what the EU has been trying to achieve all along. Good response.
One more point |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Jan 19 6.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
What a long winded way of saying that you want Parliament to renege on it's referendum promise just because you and your remain friends didn't like the result. What a short-sighted way of dismissing a reasoned argument on what might now happen just because you are scared that the people might have changed their minds.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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steeleye20 Croydon 17 Jan 19 6.37pm | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
LBC are reporting that the government gave the Lib Dems a document which says that it took 14 months to organise the 2016 referendum. A 2nd referendum would take many months. I hope this does not happen but if it does expect Brexit date to be delayed by at least 1 year. Grieve has just stated that this is wrong, a 2nd referendum would take 2/3 months, fit in with an Article 50 extension of 6 months. It doesn't take as long as that for a general election either.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Jan 19 6.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
Long winded appears to be the norm with this fella. Complex issues require detailed analysis. You have no need to read anything if it is too difficult for you. I won't be offended. I tend to expect a lack of attention to detail from those who continue to believe that leaving the EU is a wise idea.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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