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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 16 Jan 19 5.44pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And I suppose you would be saying all this if Remain had won. Who do you think you are kidding? The people aren't interested in sour grapes technical tosh. They were told that the vote would be binding and that is what matters. I'm sure an imminent no deal scenario will bring those scumbags in Brussels around to a rethink on what we are offered. That is how you negotiate. Man up. I'll take no deal all day over the US of E. This is what really annoys me. The pussies May sent to negotiate took a really strong bargaining position and pissed it up against the wall. They've been bullied and pushed around and taken, sans lube, by Barnier and his cronies. Strongarm is all these Euronazis understand. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 16 Jan 19 5.44pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And I suppose you would be saying all this if Remain had won.

Who do you think you are kidding?

The people aren't interested in sour grapes technical tosh. They were told that the vote would be binding and that is what matters.
I'm sure an imminent no deal scenario will bring those scumbags in Brussels around to a rethink on what we are offered.

That is how you negotiate. Man up. I'll take no deal all day over the US of E.

This is what really annoys me. The pussies May sent to negotiate took a really strong bargaining position and pissed it up against the wall. They've been bullied and pushed around and taken, sans lube, by Barnier and his cronies. Strongarm is all these Euronazis understand.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 16 Jan 19 5.50pm
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol As long as democratically elected politicians do it, through Democratic means. Labour will get in then the referendum will be void because a different party offered something they couldn't deliver Sorry Labour will only get in if the whole country suddenly loses their minds....Corbyn and Abbott a recipe for total disaster
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 16 Jan 19 5.50pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

As long as democratically elected politicians do it, through Democratic means.

Labour will get in then the referendum will be void because a different party offered something they couldn't deliver

Sorry

Labour will only get in if the whole country suddenly loses their minds....Corbyn and Abbott a recipe for total disaster

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Spiderman Horsham 16 Jan 19 6.08pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 One formerly extremely loyal Tory MP said this morning: "Just at the moment when we need the maximum flexibility, we have the leader worst suited to it." How can you have cross-party talks without the leader of the opposition? If you want to support her you must be bonkers, she won't get any change of of Tusk. According to Gordon Brown another vote likely in 2 years in any event, as former PM should know about these things. Sums up the EU then. Totally inflexible and full of unelected t***s
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Spiderman

Horsham 16 Jan 19 6.08pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

One formerly extremely loyal Tory MP said this morning: "Just at the moment when we need the maximum flexibility, we have the leader worst suited to it."

How can you have cross-party talks without the leader of the opposition?

If you want to support her you must be bonkers, she won't get any change of of Tusk.

According to Gordon Brown another vote likely in 2 years in any event, as former PM should know about these things.

Sums up the EU then. Totally inflexible and full of unelected t***s

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Spiderman Horsham 16 Jan 19 6.10pm
Originally posted by braunstoneagle if there is another vote and remain win, surely that makes it 1-1, with a best of 3 decider in 2022? Don't want it to go to penalties, the Germans would win
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Spiderman

Horsham 16 Jan 19 6.10pm

Originally posted by braunstoneagle

if there is another vote and remain win, surely that makes it 1-1, with a best of 3 decider in 2022?

Don't want it to go to penalties, the Germans would win

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Spiderman Horsham 16 Jan 19 6.11pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt This is what really annoys me. The pussies May sent to negotiate took a really strong bargaining position and pissed it up against the wall. They've been bullied and pushed around and taken, sans lube, by Barnier and his cronies. Strongarm is all these Euronazis understand. Exactly what I have been saying.
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Spiderman

Horsham 16 Jan 19 6.11pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Exactly what I have been saying.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Jan 19 6.16pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And I suppose you would be saying all this if Remain had won. Who do you think you are kidding? The people aren't interested in sour grapes technical tosh. They were told that the vote would be binding and that is what matters. I'm sure an imminent no deal scenario will bring those scumbags in Brussels around to a rethink on what we are offered. That is how you negotiate. Man up. I'll take no deal all day over the US of E. I would say it if and when any referendum was proposed and if remain had "won" I am quite sure that the leavers would by now have been pushing for another one on the grounds that the result was very close. Farage said as much just prior to the declaration didn't he! The idea that people like me have any "sour grapes" is garbage. I believe in British Parliamentary democracy and if Parliament had decided to hold a vote to leave the EU I might have tried to persuade my MP to vote against, or voted for a pro-EU candidate at a GE, but would always have accepted the decision made. That's how we do things. Our function is to choose who represents us. Yes, we were told it was binding but it isn't what matters most. British Parliamentary Democracy matters more. Lose that and we lose our heritage and could easily slide down a slippery slope. Playing poker with the EU, when there are 27 card holders against you, is a dangerous game. You cannot be sure that you hold any aces at all. Some might . want to deal but it only takes one or two to decide not to and we could easily end up in the deep brown stuff. Trump claims to be a great negotiator and but just look where that has got the USA. Wishing and hoping is no substitute for genuine diplomacy. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 16 Jan 19 6.16pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And I suppose you would be saying all this if Remain had won.

Who do you think you are kidding?

The people aren't interested in sour grapes technical tosh. They were told that the vote would be binding and that is what matters.
I'm sure an imminent no deal scenario will bring those scumbags in Brussels around to a rethink on what we are offered.

That is how you negotiate. Man up. I'll take no deal all day over the US of E.

I would say it if and when any referendum was proposed and if remain had "won" I am quite sure that the leavers would by now have been pushing for another one on the grounds that the result was very close. Farage said as much just prior to the declaration didn't he!

The idea that people like me have any "sour grapes" is garbage. I believe in British Parliamentary democracy and if Parliament had decided to hold a vote to leave the EU I might have tried to persuade my MP to vote against, or voted for a pro-EU candidate at a GE, but would always have accepted the decision made. That's how we do things. Our function is to choose who represents us.

Yes, we were told it was binding but it isn't what matters most. British Parliamentary Democracy matters more. Lose that and we lose our heritage and could easily slide down a slippery slope.

Playing poker with the EU, when there are 27 card holders against you, is a dangerous game. You cannot be sure that you hold any aces at all. Some might .
want to deal but it only takes one or two to decide not to and we could easily end up in the deep brown stuff.

Trump claims to be a great negotiator and but just look where that has got the USA. Wishing and hoping is no substitute for genuine diplomacy.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 16 Jan 19 6.21pm
I don't think the pro EU camp realise just how incredibly weak the EU actually is......They couldn't and wouldn't even let Greece go.....and Greece is a tiny economy. It's high stakes poker nothing else. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 Jan 19 6.21pm

I don't think the pro EU camp realise just how incredibly weak the EU actually is......They couldn't and wouldn't even let Greece go.....and Greece is a tiny economy.

It's high stakes poker nothing else.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Jan 19 6.22pm
Originally posted by .TUX. 1. Incorrect on both parts. 2. That's just a long-winded way of saying "it's not fair because I didn't win" (unashamedly copied and pasted ) How you reach that conclusion based upon my arguments is bizarre. It has nothing at all to do with "winning" or "losing". I believe we would all lose if we actually come out of the EU. It isn't though the decision that I complain about. It is how that decision might be arrived at. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 16 Jan 19 6.22pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

1. Incorrect on both parts.
2. That's just a long-winded way of saying "it's not fair because I didn't win" (unashamedly copied and pasted )

How you reach that conclusion based upon my arguments is bizarre. It has nothing at all to do with "winning" or "losing". I believe we would all lose if we actually come out of the EU. It isn't though the decision that I complain about. It is how that decision might be arrived at.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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dynamicdick Dormansland 16 Jan 19 6.51pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Nothing wrong with technical arguments if they find nuggets of truth. That interpretation is not universal! I, and others, have always disagreed with the idea that the referendum should be regarded as binding because it just isn't so in the UK. I argued that well before it was held and the result known. Parliament made the mistake of committing to respect it and allowing people to believe it was binding. It is now down to Parliament to hold their hands up, apologise for the error (repeated at the last election) and correct the mistake. History won't forgive them if they don't. Parliament could always apply to join again, if that was their will, but why wait when it's their will now to stay a member? Any future application would almost certainly have to be on worse terms than we now enjoy and we could very well use an offer to stay in to obtain even more concessions right now. We will never be stronger than now. Can't recall anything in the Tory election manifesto saying that the referendum wasn't binding. If Brexit isn't followed then the referendum and its result was a complete waste of time and money and an affront to democracy. No PM however strong could have negotiated a deal that was satisfactory to all Tory MP's. If they were all behind her she would have still needed the support of the DUP. It is all very well voting the deal down but as yet nobody has put forward any alternatives. BTW where are Cameron, Farage and Johnson when you need them!! Bring back Brolin
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dynamicdick

Dormansland 16 Jan 19 6.51pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Nothing wrong with technical arguments if they find nuggets of truth. That interpretation is not universal! I, and others, have always disagreed with the idea that the referendum should be regarded as binding because it just isn't so in the UK. I argued that well before it was held and the result known.

Parliament made the mistake of committing to respect it and allowing people to believe it was binding. It is now down to Parliament to hold their hands up, apologise for the error (repeated at the last election) and correct the mistake. History won't forgive them if they don't.

Parliament could always apply to join again, if that was their will, but why wait when it's their will now to stay a member? Any future application would almost certainly have to be on worse terms than we now enjoy and we could very well use an offer to stay in to obtain even more concessions right now. We will never be stronger than now.

Can't recall anything in the Tory election manifesto saying that the referendum wasn't binding. If Brexit isn't followed then the referendum and its result was a complete waste of time and money and an affront to democracy. No PM however strong could have negotiated a deal that was satisfactory to all Tory MP's. If they were all behind her she would have still needed the support of the DUP. It is all very well voting the deal down but as yet nobody has put forward any alternatives. BTW where are Cameron, Farage and Johnson when you need them!!

Bring back Brolin

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ZIGnZAG Stoke 16 Jan 19 6.59pm
I would say it if and when any referendum was proposed and if remain had "won" I am quite sure that the leavers would by now have been pushing for another one on the grounds that the result was very close. Farage said as much just prior to the declaration didn't he! The idea that people like me have any "sour grapes" is garbage. I believe in British Parliamentary democracy and if Parliament had decided to hold a vote to leave the EU I might have tried to persuade my MP to vote against, or voted for a pro-EU candidate at a GE, but would always have accepted the decision made. That's how we do things. Our function is to choose who represents us. Yes, we were told it was binding but it isn't what matters most. British Parliamentary Democracy matters more. Lose that and we lose our heritage and could easily slide down a slippery slope. Playing poker with the EU, when there are 27 card holders against you, is a dangerous game. You cannot be sure that you hold any aces at all. Some might . want to deal but it only takes one or two to decide not to and we could easily end up in the deep brown stuff. Trump claims to be a great negotiator and but just look where that has got the USA. Wishing and hoping is no substitute for genuine diplomacy. Exactly, the people voted. We voted leave. If the government don't deliver, for whatever reason. This whole system fails. Regardless of what you personally want... in, out, shake it all about, if the government don't/can't/won't do what the people wanted, the whole system will become completely pointless. Edited by ZIGnZAG (16 Jan 2019 7.00pm)
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ZIGnZAG

Stoke 16 Jan 19 6.59pm

Yes, we were told it was binding but it isn't what matters most. British Parliamentary Democracy matters more. Lose that and we lose our heritage and could easily slide down a slippery slope.

Trump claims to be a great negotiator and but just look where that has got the USA. Wishing and hoping is no substitute for genuine diplomacy.

Exactly, the people voted. We voted leave. If the government don't deliver, for whatever reason. This whole system fails.
Regardless of what you personally want... in, out, shake it all about, if the government don't/can't/won't do what the people wanted, the whole system will become completely pointless.

Edited by ZIGnZAG (16 Jan 2019 7.00pm)

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Hrolf The Ganger 16 Jan 19 7.02pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I would say it if and when any referendum was proposed and if remain had "won" I am quite sure that the leavers would by now have been pushing for another one on the grounds that the result was very close. Farage said as much just prior to the declaration didn't he! The idea that people like me have any "sour grapes" is garbage. I believe in British Parliamentary democracy and if Parliament had decided to hold a vote to leave the EU I might have tried to persuade my MP to vote against, or voted for a pro-EU candidate at a GE, but would always have accepted the decision made. That's how we do things. Our function is to choose who represents us. Yes, we were told it was binding but it isn't what matters most. British Parliamentary Democracy matters more. Lose that and we lose our heritage and could easily slide down a slippery slope. Playing poker with the EU, when there are 27 card holders against you, is a dangerous game. You cannot be sure that you hold any aces at all. Some might . want to deal but it only takes one or two to decide not to and we could easily end up in the deep brown stuff. Trump claims to be a great negotiator and but just look where that has got the USA. Wishing and hoping is no substitute for genuine diplomacy. Not in a referendum. If politicians wanted to remain in Europe then they shouldn't have risked a vote. You can't have your cake and eat it. The EU might be greater in terms of numbers but they don't want to us to walk away with no deal. You are clearly a defeatist. I am for leaving irrespective of short term difficulties. I too am thinking of the future and my future does not involve being governed by unelected untouchables from a foreign country.
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Hrolf The Ganger

16 Jan 19 7.02pm

Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Yes, we were told it was binding but it isn't what matters most. British Parliamentary Democracy matters more. Lose that and we lose our heritage and could easily slide down a slippery slope.

Trump claims to be a great negotiator and but just look where that has got the USA. Wishing and hoping is no substitute for genuine diplomacy.

Not in a referendum. If politicians wanted to remain in Europe then they shouldn't have risked a vote.
You can't have your cake and eat it.

The EU might be greater in terms of numbers but they don't want to us to walk away with no deal.

You are clearly a defeatist. I am for leaving irrespective of short term difficulties. I too am thinking of the future and my future does not involve being governed by unelected untouchables from a foreign country.

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.TUX. 16 Jan 19 7.25pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I would say it if and when any referendum was proposed and if remain had "won" I am quite sure that the leavers would by now have been pushing for another one on the grounds that the result was very close. Farage said as much just prior to the declaration didn't he! The idea that people like me have any "sour grapes" is garbage. I believe in British Parliamentary democracy and if Parliament had decided to hold a vote to leave the EU I might have tried to persuade my MP to vote against, or voted for a pro-EU candidate at a GE, but would always have accepted the decision made. That's how we do things. Our function is to choose who represents us. Yes, we were told it was binding but it isn't what matters most. British Parliamentary Democracy matters more. Lose that and we lose our heritage and could easily slide down a slippery slope. Playing poker with the EU, when there are 27 card holders against you, is a dangerous game. You cannot be sure that you hold any aces at all. Some might . want to deal but it only takes one or two to decide not to and we could easily end up in the deep brown stuff. Trump claims to be a great negotiator and but just look where that has got the USA. Wishing and hoping is no substitute for genuine diplomacy. Over 20 of those cards mean little. Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

16 Jan 19 7.25pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Yes, we were told it was binding but it isn't what matters most. British Parliamentary Democracy matters more. Lose that and we lose our heritage and could easily slide down a slippery slope.

Playing poker with the EU, when there are 27 card holders against you, is a dangerous game. You cannot be sure that you hold any aces at all. Some might .
want to deal but it only takes one or two to decide not to and we could easily end up in the deep brown stuff.

Trump claims to be a great negotiator and but just look where that has got the USA. Wishing and hoping is no substitute for genuine diplomacy.

Over 20 of those cards mean little.

Buy Litecoin.

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