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 YT  Oxford 08 Jul 24 10.14am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No lecture! Just opinions. As are your responses. You can regard it as a stitch-up if you wish, but obviously the majority in France don’t because that’s what they voted for. Does PR produce utopia? More probably it produces compromises that can be tolerated. I don’t think political differences are put aside. They are negotiated and common ground sought which enables progress to be achieved, whilst avoiding outcomes that those involved do not want to see. That the negotiations can be difficult is true, as is that they produce instability and can fail. If the overriding desire is to avoid something else then that’s the cost you must pay. Then you have some very long-winded opinions. You seem to take pleasure in repeatedly saying that the outcome is what people in France voted for therefore it can't possibly be a stitch-up. I assume therefore you agree that it's no different to the majority in the UK having voted to leave the EU; no stitch-up...move on. So if I vote for a party's candidate in my French constituency in the first round, and my candidate secures at least the 12.5% vote share in order to stand in the second round, how do I feel anything other than 'stitched-up' when that candidate disappears for the final ballot? Tactical voting - which naturally you lauded in the General Election thread because you saw another opportunity to wind a few people up - is one thing, but this is nothing but disenfranchisement.
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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| eaglesdare 08 Jul 24 10.39am |
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There was just absolutely no way that the powers that be would let Le pen get in. It would have destroyed woke Europe.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jul 24 10.42am |
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Originally posted by YT
Then you have some very long-winded opinions. You seem to take pleasure in repeatedly saying that the outcome is what people in France voted for therefore it can't possibly be a stitch-up. I assume therefore you agree that it's no different to the majority in the UK having voted to leave the EU; no stitch-up...move on. So if I vote for a party's candidate in my French constituency in the first round, and my candidate secures at least the 12.5% vote share in order to stand in the second round, how do I feel anything other than 'stitched-up' when that candidate disappears for the final ballot? Tactical voting - which naturally you lauded in the General Election thread because you saw another opportunity to wind a few people up - is one thing, but this is nothing but disenfranchisement. Like all lefties, he will spin spin spin. Macron has done deals with the far left and all sorts to swing this result. They have used a rigged game to defy the will of ther people. That is clear. They will pay a price as will France. If people can't rely on democracy then there will be consequences. What you effectively have is a dictatorship via coalition. That spells big trouble. Those that want PR in this country, including Reform, should take heed. Perhaps there are those who want it here so they can pull this kind of French style electoral fix to deny the will of the people. I'd rather see Reform find a way to win bigger under our current system.
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| Matov 08 Jul 24 10.50am |
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Sometimes you just have to acknowledge when your side gets a resounding defeat. The Left Alliance polled an astounding, and it is literally a landslide, 26% of the vote. As opposed to the Far Right who could only muster a paltry 37%%. Pathetic when you think about it. Surely now we must all just give up the struggle and accept that the democratic process is never wrong?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jul 24 10.55am |
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Originally posted by Matov
Sometimes you just have to acknowledge when your side gets a resounding defeat. The Left Alliance polled an astounding, and it is literally a landslide, 26% of the vote. As opposed to the Far Right who could only muster a paltry 37%%. Pathetic when you think about it. Surely now we must all just give up the struggle and accept that the democratic process is never wrong? You are joking of course. The left have never been so vulnerable. The reality of Europe is impossible to hide. When everything we hold dear is being destroyed, there will be a reaction. It has only just begun.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 08 Jul 24 11.00am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are joking of course. The left have never been so vulnerable. The reality of Europe is impossible to hide. When everything we hold dear is being destroyed, there will be a reaction. It has only just begun.
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| Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 08 Jul 24 11.17am |
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The Tories must not win at any cost…
hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing. |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jul 24 11.39am |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Did that get a bit Churchillian?
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| Stirlingsays 08 Jul 24 12.08pm |
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Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines
The Tories must not win at any cost… They did something similar in Poland. All over Europe the neoliberals and left are colluding to deny the right power against the spirit of democracy. This isn't good and only creates anger.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 08 Jul 24 12.36pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
They did something similar in Poland. All over Europe the neoliberals and left are colluding to deny the right power against the spirit of democracy. This isn't good and only creates anger. And in the US that anger has access to all manner of firearms...
hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Jul 24 2.28pm |
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Originally posted by YT
Then you have some very long-winded opinions. You seem to take pleasure in repeatedly saying that the outcome is what people in France voted for therefore it can't possibly be a stitch-up. I assume therefore you agree that it's no different to the majority in the UK having voted to leave the EU; no stitch-up...move on. So if I vote for a party's candidate in my French constituency in the first round, and my candidate secures at least the 12.5% vote share in order to stand in the second round, how do I feel anything other than 'stitched-up' when that candidate disappears for the final ballot? Tactical voting - which naturally you lauded in the General Election thread because you saw another opportunity to wind a few people up - is one thing, but this is nothing but disenfranchisement. Opinions cannot always be described in short sentences! The result of a referendum and an election are not directly comparable, but the primary gripe about ours for Brexit was not whether it was a “stitch-up”, even if that is also arguable given the lies and interference. It was that it was held in the first place, when we choose representatives to make these decisions on our behalf. In the described circumstances you have been given a choice. That choice determined by those seeking to represent you. You can refuse that choice and not vote, or vote the other way, but the choice remains yours. Tactical voting isn’t new, and it’s still voting.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| YT Oxford 08 Jul 24 3.30pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Opinions cannot always be described in short sentences! The result of a referendum and an election are not directly comparable, but the primary gripe about ours for Brexit was not whether it was a “stitch-up”, even if that is also arguable given the lies and interference. It was that it was held in the first place, when we choose representatives to make these decisions on our behalf. In the described circumstances you have been given a choice. That choice determined by those seeking to represent you. You can refuse that choice and not vote, or vote the other way, but the choice remains yours. Tactical voting isn’t new, and it’s still voting. You are either obfuscating with more waffle or you've completely missed the point.
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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