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Son racist gesture
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 EverybodyDannsNow  SE19 10 May 23 4.46pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I know what you post here, and it's always the same old attack on certain contributors. The only rabbit hole in this example is the one where people believe that one fan making a childish gesture toward a player is a serious matter. Please point me in the direction of me calling it a serious matter. You also ignored my last question; when have I tried to shut down opinion previously? You are arguing against a man in your head - it's really transparent.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 10 May 23 4.52pm |
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Originally posted by MrRobbo
Lol. Its pretty easy. And regardless of 'some new directive' its just about being a decent human. Don't be a racist, or go around screaming obscenities, or threatening to do something unsavoury....and there is nothing to worry about. Its just a shame that this stuff has to be policed, and bans have to be handed out. And people have to be made an example of. Wouldn't it just be easier if people realised that going to the footie to scream racist stuff at a player who hasn't done anything wrong, is a bit silly I am at a loss to understand why anyone wants to abuse anyone at any time, but they do just the same. None of us should even be aware of this incident. People are dying on our streets on a daily basis for Christ sake.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 10 May 23 4.55pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Please point me in the direction of me calling it a serious matter. You also ignored my last question; when have I tried to shut down opinion previously? You are arguing against a man in your head - it's really transparent. Actually, I have a brain in mine. Do you? I'm not going to descend into a squabble with you, so let's end it here.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 10 May 23 4.57pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Actually, I have a brain in mine. Do you? I'm not going to descend into a squabble with you, so let's end it here. So both claims were nonsense. Apology accepted.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 10 May 23 5.14pm |
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I'm only sorry that I read your posts.
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| MrRobbo Chaldon 10 May 23 5.22pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I am at a loss to understand why anyone wants to abuse anyone at any time, but they do just the same. None of us should even be aware of this incident. People are dying on our streets on a daily basis for Christ sake. The proposed punishment is disproportionate, but it has to be to demonstrate to others (who lets be honest do the same but havent been caught), that there are consequences. So its it a bit harsh on this chap. Probably. Will it serve as a deterrent. Hopefully.
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| sydtheeagle England 10 May 23 5.25pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I am at a loss to understand why anyone wants to abuse anyone at any time No you're not. That's simply not true. If you're a football supporter, it's a ridiculous statement. For instance, I want to abuse someone (and likely so do you) because they play for Brighton. That would seem ridiculous to 99% of the population, but it makes perfect sense to me, and probably to you too. Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Since humans are liable to misbehave with varying severity forever, it is up to us as a society to put this tendency into some sort of scale. This is exactly what society has, in this case, done. It has put racism at or near the top of the scale of severity. So your problem appears to be simply that racist abuse isn't really that important; it should come much lower down the scale of transgressions. Most, including me, wouldn't agree with you there. Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I am simply observing that certain misdemeanors are being exaggerated out of all proportion purely for political and commercial reasons. See above. Personally, I find it laughable to imagine that we don't tolerate racism for political and commercial reasons. While I totally agree with you that some misdemeanors are more serious than others, racism is absolutely one of the most serious ones for no other reason than it discriminates against or belittles people on the basis of entirely natural characteristics. Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
None of us should even be aware of this incident. People are dying on our streets on a daily basis for Christ sake. On this point, I sort of agree with you. The acres of media coverage is not justified by the offense, although I don't think that should change the punishment or the club's handling of things. This guy is just a bog standard idiot, one among millions committing the same offense every day, and who having been caught should be punished as required while the media ought to focus its attention on, as you say, far more pressing matters.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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Nicholas91  The Democratic Republic of Kent 10 May 23 5.36pm |
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Originally posted by MrRobbo
The proposed punishment is disproportionate, but it has to be to demonstrate to others (who lets be honest do the same but havent been caught), that there are consequences. So its it a bit harsh on this chap. Probably. Will it serve as a deterrent. Hopefully. I think the perception can be that it is used as some sort of moralistic front for commercial aspirations by the media, clubs etc as it obviously rouses the dogmatic and ideologically indoctrinated, the zeitgeist of today, however I completely agree with the point. To reiterate an earlier post of mine, outside of the wider discussion I find it near impossible to empathise with the individual as I am confident I would not be guilty of the same thing however am even more confident I'd at least be mindful of the potential consequences of such actions in the unthinkable event I was so inclined and determined. A zero tolerance approach may feel extreme but quite frankly necessary. It's a sign of the times that it arouses such hysteria and more so than equally offensive things that happen at football matches but again, every individual should be aware of this, whether they are a committed racist, just foolish or a bit silly/p!ssed and indulge in an act of sever misjudgement on the day. If some needed to be reminded of the consequences occasionally then it's a bit sad all round but so be it. If the bloke in question were identified outside of the media/law and issued with a banning order there'd probably be less complaint from all and I'd imagine he'd just have to swallow it and would accept his guilt, hopefully with sincere remorse. You'd hope that at the very least anyway.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 10 May 23 6.12pm |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
I think the perception can be that it is used as some sort of moralistic front for commercial aspirations by the media, clubs etc as it obviously rouses the dogmatic and ideologically indoctrinated, the zeitgeist of today, however I completely agree with the point. To reiterate an earlier post of mine, outside of the wider discussion I find it near impossible to empathise with the individual as I am confident I would not be guilty of the same thing however am even more confident I'd at least be mindful of the potential consequences of such actions in the unthinkable event I was so inclined and determined. A zero tolerance approach may feel extreme but quite frankly necessary. It's a sign of the times that it arouses such hysteria and more so than equally offensive things that happen at football matches but again, every individual should be aware of this, whether they are a committed racist, just foolish or a bit silly/p!ssed and indulge in an act of sever misjudgement on the day. If some needed to be reminded of the consequences occasionally then it's a bit sad all round but so be it. If the bloke in question were identified outside of the media/law and issued with a banning order there'd probably be less complaint from all and I'd imagine he'd just have to swallow it and would accept his guilt, hopefully with sincere remorse. You'd hope that at the very least anyway. I'm reminded of an episode of Star Trek where a society who prided itself on harmony sentenced people to death for walking on the grass. They thought it was all fair because the signs were in plain sight and the laws were clear. We should be careful what we wish for and what we tolerate on our 75ish year watch.
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| Stirlingsays 10 May 23 7.23pm |
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Never went along with the Brighton rivalry myself. Even so I've never felt the need to abuse someone just because they supported a different team from me. However, if those antics are fun for other supporters I'm not here pretending to be superior to them. It's just not my particular thing. While I mock the prawn sandwich brigade I must admit I behave similarly to them....I just don't believe in policing football crowds and enforcing how I enjoy football onto them. I think the most animated I got was back in the Championship when it was 1-1 in the last minute and Reading scored from a corner, their fans went berserk celebrating and then the ref ruled it out.....I was behind the goal at the front and loads of us rose up and jeered giving them the wnaker sign...an in the moment reaction.....quite childish and out of character really but given the high emotion quite natural. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 May 2023 7.23pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Davepalace707 Northumberland 10 May 23 7.31pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I'm reminded of an episode of Star Trek where a society who prided itself on harmony sentenced people to death for walking on the grass. They thought it was all fair because the signs were in plain sight and the laws were clear. We should be careful what we wish for and what we tolerate on our 75ish year watch. That’s an example of one extreme. At the other end of the scale would be a society where one group of people decide they don’t like another, maybe because they look or sound different to them, and use power and/or force to try and remove them. Plenty of actual historical examples of that.
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| Stirlingsays 10 May 23 7.49pm |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
A zero tolerance approach may feel extreme but quite frankly necessary. I agree with a lot of your takes but I can't with this one I'm afraid. I view it as the continual concession of the right. You give another inch and then they move onto the next and another inch gets taken. It doesn't stop. It's not a zero tolerance to racism, it's a zero tolerance to a different opinion on what they want.....For example, when you point out that kneeling for black lives matter was itself divisive, racist and made no sense, you're told to shut up.....remember how they treated those who booed kneelers....these people have zero tolerance to more than just 'racism'. It'll stop when they are policing what you say in your own home......very selectively on who they police I suspect. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 May 2023 8.53pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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